CA tactical carbine - Mini-14
- Thread starter dave3006
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I've always liked the Mini 14 not an Ar...but darn close. I don't know, maybe it's just my hold over love for the A TEAM "pity da foo!!".
On another note, Has anyone had experience with accuracy systems? It looks like they do some pretty cool mini 14 work. They clain sub MOA on many of thier rifles and that's nothing to sneeze at. I really like the look of thier mini 14 "urban brawler".
http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/
On a third and final note: I have to agree with sigfan. I think the garand is obsolete in modern combat. (That last line was the equivalent of kicking a hornets nest). That is not to say that the garand is a bad rifle (it is an excellent rifle) or that it does not possess many advantages over the Ar series (it does). However the garand's time has passed. I base this bold and sacriligious (my spelling sucks, sue me.) statement on the existence of the M-14. It is my contention that the M-14 does everything the garand does equally well, while having the very distinct advantage of a detachable magazine (20 rnds vs 8 as well). While the garand is still capable in combat there is another design which does everything better, and nothing worse. Thus the garand is obsolete. I think most people who argue for the garand are biased by the rifles "fine as hell" looks and impressive history. The reality however remains. If the M-14 had been invented at the same time, the M1 would have probably never went into production.
P.S. Just a side note, I am not an M-14 nut. I don't currently even own one. (used to, sold it for a FAL)
On another note, Has anyone had experience with accuracy systems? It looks like they do some pretty cool mini 14 work. They clain sub MOA on many of thier rifles and that's nothing to sneeze at. I really like the look of thier mini 14 "urban brawler".
http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/
On a third and final note: I have to agree with sigfan. I think the garand is obsolete in modern combat. (That last line was the equivalent of kicking a hornets nest). That is not to say that the garand is a bad rifle (it is an excellent rifle) or that it does not possess many advantages over the Ar series (it does). However the garand's time has passed. I base this bold and sacriligious (my spelling sucks, sue me.) statement on the existence of the M-14. It is my contention that the M-14 does everything the garand does equally well, while having the very distinct advantage of a detachable magazine (20 rnds vs 8 as well). While the garand is still capable in combat there is another design which does everything better, and nothing worse. Thus the garand is obsolete. I think most people who argue for the garand are biased by the rifles "fine as hell" looks and impressive history. The reality however remains. If the M-14 had been invented at the same time, the M1 would have probably never went into production.
P.S. Just a side note, I am not an M-14 nut. I don't currently even own one. (used to, sold it for a FAL)
Dave, what do you mean by the Amega ranges is too high to cowitness? Does the Mini front sight interfere? I'm thinking of the Amega and a Reflex or a Hakko http://www.action-direct.com/hakmkiii.html but i don't know how either will play with the stock Mini front sight.
I will have my barrel cryo'd(45 bucks) before cutting it down to prevent barrel whip.
I shimmed my stock up so its nice n tight with the trigger group out. This Mini will be a nice shooter soon for cheap.
I will have my barrel cryo'd(45 bucks) before cutting it down to prevent barrel whip.
I shimmed my stock up so its nice n tight with the trigger group out. This Mini will be a nice shooter soon for cheap.
The Ultimak sits lower than the Amega ranges. Using an Aimpoint CompML2, you can still see your iron sights. The Trijicon reflex would be too high with either rail if you want to keep the ability to use your iron sights.
On a different note, the 20 round box magazine on the M1A is a liability to me. They are expensive, bulky, and slow to use. With enbloc clips, you can carry more ammo per pound and there are no issues on what to do with the empty mags. You can also get closer to the ground with the Garand. The Garand has better balance. I think it is a myth that the M1A is better in every way.
I must have 1000 enblocs loaded with ammo. I won't run out in my lifetime and they will never get spring fatigue.
On a different note, the 20 round box magazine on the M1A is a liability to me. They are expensive, bulky, and slow to use. With enbloc clips, you can carry more ammo per pound and there are no issues on what to do with the empty mags. You can also get closer to the ground with the Garand. The Garand has better balance. I think it is a myth that the M1A is better in every way.
I must have 1000 enblocs loaded with ammo. I won't run out in my lifetime and they will never get spring fatigue.
"On a different note, the 20 round box magazine on the M1A is a liability to me. They are expensive, bulky, and slow to use. With enbloc clips, you can carry more ammo per pound and there are no issues on what to do with the empty mags. You can also get closer to the ground with the Garand. The Garand has better balance. I think it is a myth that the M1A is better in every way."
-Dave 3006 While you might have a personal preference for en-bloc clips (everyone is entitled to personal preference) I believe that the absence of modern firearms being produced with the en-bloc clips clearly demonstrates thier inferiority. Besides the absence of a tactical reload (which is quite honestly a HUGE disadvantage in certain specific scenarios) enbloc clips have a (by modern standards) ridiculously low round count. I am hardly a been there done that type of guy, but on the two occasions when I was forced to present a weapon (once rifle, once handgun) I was glad to know there were at least 18 (Glock 17 & AR) rounds on tap. Aside from getting closer to the ground (which I will concede) the other points offered seem like grasping at straws. Balance is subjective, and the weight difference between a 2 enblock clips (which still hold only 16 rounds) and one 20 round m-14 mag is negligible. Reload speed too is questionable. In 3 gun I've seen some wicked fast magazine reloads, and with Mags you can stick two together, thus doubling your capacity, while providing a handy location for the spare. I forget what they are called, but a certain company (mag pull I think) makes a rubber connector which places two AR mags just the right distance apart. So your reload becomes drop curren, move mag over 1 inch, insert mag, charge, rock n' roll with another 30(not 8). Admittedly that's the Ar system but similar things can be done w/ a battle rifle mag. Try doing that with a en block clip (taping two together). Going back to my previous point, could you imagine what would happen if FN tried to produce the SCAR heavy (7.62 version) with enblock clips because of better ballance/questionably faster reload issues? They would get laughed out of town. How about a OICW en-bloc? You get the idea. I love Garands but the lack of a detachable mag is the achilles heel. Nobody makes en-bloc clips on current weapons because they are simply obsolete. Everyone can have personal preference and if you have put in the time to get good with the clip system godbless, and by all means it might be the best for you. Training always supercedes hardware in my experience, and there are a number of people I would be wary of facing even if they were armed with nothing more than a Brown bess. But in a majority of situations, for a majority of people the garand is a lacking design. I don't want to be antagonistic, but it bothers me when people suggest the superiority of a weapons system on the internet, only to have the uneducated take thier word as gospel. Then when these very same people are forced to use said recomended weapon in a life and death scenario (i.e. defending thier home) they are compromised by the inherent disadvantages of an obsolete design. My opinion take it for what it's worth.
-Dave 3006 While you might have a personal preference for en-bloc clips (everyone is entitled to personal preference) I believe that the absence of modern firearms being produced with the en-bloc clips clearly demonstrates thier inferiority. Besides the absence of a tactical reload (which is quite honestly a HUGE disadvantage in certain specific scenarios) enbloc clips have a (by modern standards) ridiculously low round count. I am hardly a been there done that type of guy, but on the two occasions when I was forced to present a weapon (once rifle, once handgun) I was glad to know there were at least 18 (Glock 17 & AR) rounds on tap. Aside from getting closer to the ground (which I will concede) the other points offered seem like grasping at straws. Balance is subjective, and the weight difference between a 2 enblock clips (which still hold only 16 rounds) and one 20 round m-14 mag is negligible. Reload speed too is questionable. In 3 gun I've seen some wicked fast magazine reloads, and with Mags you can stick two together, thus doubling your capacity, while providing a handy location for the spare. I forget what they are called, but a certain company (mag pull I think) makes a rubber connector which places two AR mags just the right distance apart. So your reload becomes drop curren, move mag over 1 inch, insert mag, charge, rock n' roll with another 30(not 8). Admittedly that's the Ar system but similar things can be done w/ a battle rifle mag. Try doing that with a en block clip (taping two together). Going back to my previous point, could you imagine what would happen if FN tried to produce the SCAR heavy (7.62 version) with enblock clips because of better ballance/questionably faster reload issues? They would get laughed out of town. How about a OICW en-bloc? You get the idea. I love Garands but the lack of a detachable mag is the achilles heel. Nobody makes en-bloc clips on current weapons because they are simply obsolete. Everyone can have personal preference and if you have put in the time to get good with the clip system godbless, and by all means it might be the best for you. Training always supercedes hardware in my experience, and there are a number of people I would be wary of facing even if they were armed with nothing more than a Brown bess. But in a majority of situations, for a majority of people the garand is a lacking design. I don't want to be antagonistic, but it bothers me when people suggest the superiority of a weapons system on the internet, only to have the uneducated take thier word as gospel. Then when these very same people are forced to use said recomended weapon in a life and death scenario (i.e. defending thier home) they are compromised by the inherent disadvantages of an obsolete design. My opinion take it for what it's worth.
All the new weapons you mention fire full and semi auto. The box magazine makes sense for a selective fire weapon. For a machine gun, you need capacity. A box mag makes sense and is manageable for intermediate caliber rounds. For a full size battlerifle it is not quite so black and white. There are pro's and cons to putting big rounds in big mags vs. compact enblocs.
Part of the reason for the box mag on the M14 was that they wanted to make it a do-everything rifle. Rifle and Machine gun all in one. It did not work. If you need volume of fire, you need a real machine gun.
You can easily tac reload a Garand. Pop the old one and put in a new one. Again, you can do this faster with a Garand than an AR15. Besides, most peoples understanding of tac reloads are gun school fantasy. You better be behind cover for ANY reloading operation. If you are behind cover, you will have enough time.
Part of the reason for the box mag on the M14 was that they wanted to make it a do-everything rifle. Rifle and Machine gun all in one. It did not work. If you need volume of fire, you need a real machine gun.
You can easily tac reload a Garand. Pop the old one and put in a new one. Again, you can do this faster with a Garand than an AR15. Besides, most peoples understanding of tac reloads are gun school fantasy. You better be behind cover for ANY reloading operation. If you are behind cover, you will have enough time.
GW
Member
So, how do you pop a clip from the Garand while it still has rounds in it?
Open the action and hit the clip release button on the left side of the receiver.
Stick the half-loaded clip in your pocket or something and sitck a full one back in.
If you're saavy (and have enough time), there is a way to load a partially full clip while it's still in the rifle. Cumbersome, but it can be done.
One more thing, just because the government chooses a weapon, doesn't make it superior. The gov't issues the M9 pistol. I do not think many could seriously debate the superiority of the Beretta over the 1911. And, while many like the 9mm round, it is clear it is not the best choice for a handgun round.
Newer does not equal better.
Newer does not equal better.
Last I checked these two issues are still hotly debated. I wouldn't assume a consensus on things that people still vehemently disagree on. After all, we all know that the AR-15 is a superior design than the AK-47. Or is it that we all know the AK-47 is a superior design than the AR-15?
Dave 3006,
Your point about full vs semi auto design considerations was interesting. I'll admit I hadn't thought of that. However, I am still convinced a box magazine is vastly superior to an en-bloc clip. Two things.
1. I have shot a garand before, and found the "tactical reload" as you describe it cumbersome at best (needed two hands, took to long). I can't even imagine what a PITA it is to load additional rounds into the mag.
2. A question (Now be honest on this one ) If the average Joe (minor firearms training, average physical size and intelligence) had to defend his family from generic bad guys would you rather see him equipped with an M1 or a Springfield SOCOM? You know what my answer would be (actually I'd give him a FAL carbine but that's beside the point).
Your point about full vs semi auto design considerations was interesting. I'll admit I hadn't thought of that. However, I am still convinced a box magazine is vastly superior to an en-bloc clip. Two things.
1. I have shot a garand before, and found the "tactical reload" as you describe it cumbersome at best (needed two hands, took to long). I can't even imagine what a PITA it is to load additional rounds into the mag.
2. A question (Now be honest on this one
) If the average Joe (minor firearms training, average physical size and intelligence) had to defend his family from generic bad guys would you rather see him equipped with an M1 or a Springfield SOCOM? You know what my answer would be (actually I'd give him a FAL carbine but that's beside the point).Jesse308
Member
Dave, how much did it cost to setup your mini like that? Also can you please post more pictures of it?
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