Cabinet vs. Safe?

[rargos]

Greetings all,

I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms with this one, but a friend of mine claims that a low-end gun cabinet is sufficient protection for his firearms. He lives in a very low-crime area and has deadbolts/an alarm system for his house. He thinks it's overkill to spend ~$400 on a more serious gun safe : he says his goals are (1) to keep visitors/family members from accessing his firearms and (2) to stop the casual burglar. None of his guns are collector's items or irreplaceable.

I have to say I agree with him about (1) and kind of agree with him on (2) : most burglars don't spend very long in the house and if the safe can resist prying/forcing with common tools for 15 minutes, then that would be sufficient for most cases. (Of course, after an unsuccessful attempt at getting into the safe, he agrees he'd have to get a better safe in case the bad guys came back later with better equipment).

I'm sure he'd get flamed royally by most people on THR, but just thought I'd ask

Thanks,

R.

 

[News Shooter]

If a thousand pound safe is not an option for you a cabinet will work to keep children and hit and run burglars out for a minute or two. They are what they are

 

[foghornl]

If he is talking about those $69 "stack-on" cabinets, yeah those resist entry by kiddies with no tools for a few minutes.

There is NO SAFE 'LOW-CRIME' AREA ANYMORE. Crooks know how to drive, catch the bus, hail a taxi, etc.

 

[P95loser]

From what I saw about the stack-on gun cabinets, they were about $100 bucks. Every year on the day after thanksgiving, Lowes puts a 14 gun sentry safe (not fire rated but has like 8 locking bolts and weighs upwards of 250-300lbs) on sale for $299. I bought one of those, stashed it in my closet, and haven't regreted it for one minute!

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=125842-26605-E5251&lpage=none

In my opinion, I would rather have 1 of those than 3 cabinets.

 

[4v50 Gary]

In mentioning cabinet, I'm conjuring the old fashion wood and glass storage unit from which an owner may proudly display his arms. Provided that other preventative measures are taken for instance, quiet community with an alert and responsive police force, retired neighbors who keep an eye out for your house, laminated glass for exterior windows, hardened doors, alarm wired to a monitoring company, dog in an enfenced area (to keep your curtilage secure and the thief outside of your house), webcam (so you can monitor your home from your computer), but best of all, a 24 hour presence (someone who is capable of using those firearms), then sure, a glass & wood affair is sufficient.

 

[DragonFire]

Realistically if he has an effective alarm system anything that takes more than a few minutes to open should be enough.

Anybody smart enough to plan to bypass the alarm would be smart enough to bring equipment good enough to open a safe.

Having said that, I also think you can afford a safe, and that's a better option.

Most crooks are not going to even think about spending the time to open a safe. They want to spend a few minutes, grab some high-priced items and get out.

He should keep in mind the legal aspects of keeping kids away from his guns. If an accident would to happen, he better be able to show he took reasonable steps to prevent access. Not all 'cabinets' are equal. One with a cheap lock may not satisfy the DA.

 

[Ala Dan]

Not even in a "gated community", would I trust my handguns to reside in
"a cabinet"; and certainly not in the everyday world of central Alabama.
I'm in between two "high crime" areas; those being Birmingham and T-town
(better known as Tuscaloosa). Both of these major cities have a history
of violent criminal activity; with a sharp increase in murders over the last
few years.

FootNote: 16 miles SSW of Birmingham, and 44 miles ENE of Tuscaloosa.

 

[a1abdj]

He thinks it's overkill to spend ~$400 on a more serious gun safe

What protection do you think a $400 "safe" will offer that a $100 "cabinet" doesn't?

he says his goals are (1) to keep visitors/family members from accessing his firearms and (2) to stop the casual burglar. None of his guns are collector's items or irreplaceable.

I think the cabinet(s) he has will take care of his stated needs.

most burglars don't spend very long in the house and if the safe can resist prying/forcing with common tools for 15 minutes, then that would be sufficient for most cases.

The problem is, most gun safes will not resist prying/forcing with common hand tools for 15 minutes. What you are speaking of would be a safe with a UL TL-15 rating (E or ER construction). These safes typically have 1.5" steel plate doors and 1" steel plate walls. A $400 gun safe would probaby have 1/10" or less walls with doors that aren't much heavier.

People have a lot of unrealistic expectations from gun safes. As a general rule of thumb, they will not protect against fire and burglary nearly as much as their owners think they will.

 

[strat81]

Sounds like he has a product that will satisfy his needs/wants. He is lucky to be so blessed.

 

[CWL]

Does your friend's cabinet use those round "kryptonite" type locks?

If so, then pay your friend a visit with a plastic Bic pen. Pop off the end cap and jam the plastic tube into the circular lock, after some practice, you should be able to wedge the plastic pen tube into the circular lock hole so that a slight twist of the pen will open the lock.

Any bicycle thief should be able to open a gun cabinet in under 30 seconds.

 

[Exmasonite]

does your friend also say that "Most SD encounters occur at less than 10 ft and involve < 3 shots." (or whatever the number is).

By that logic, he should only practice at 10 ft and only carry a gun with 3 rounds.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I have a 14 gun stack on cabinet. It works. The key is to not have it out for all to see. Mine is locked and bolted to the wall in the corner of a closet that has a solid door with a deadbolt. I don't expect it to stop a burglar with more than 30 minutes on his hands, but he will have to figure out which one of the 12 closets in the house has the cabinet first. I think he will snatch the tvs, dvd players, and other things out in the open before he goes sifting through closets with the alarm going off the whole time.

 

[trailgator]

How many guns actually fit in this 14 gun safe? Are the shelves adustable/removable?

 

[yesit'sloaded]

As of right now I have 12 in it and there is room for two more. There is a shelf that is almost dead center so that long guns in the back have room for the barrels. I keep a dehumidifier on the shelf along with an unused scope. It looks like this.

 

[KBintheSLC]

One with a cheap lock may not satisfy the DA.

Most States don't even have laws stating that you are required to lock up your guns. Also, the Stack-on's are CA rated gun safes, so they will suffice in your defense against prosecution in States that do have these laws.

I have one too, and it is enough for now. Better than nothing, and even with a large "flat-bar" it will buy 5-10 minute's for you.

 

[Flintlock Tom]

I use a Stack-On cabinet also. Bolted to the wall in my garage. So far, so good.
The only complaint I have is that they fill up too fast.

 

[RubenZ]

Alarm that calls the police is better than any safe or cabinet.

 

[pete f]

Stealth is a better avenue anyway. I have built several pieces of furniture that hide the guns in plain sight, a coffee table with a sliding top that hid ten or more long guns, a bar with a flip top that held many weapons. Even using stuff like hanging two fake heating ducts off the main duct run in the basement, both held several long guns in sleeves, Unless you were able to read the print and look at the actual installation, you would not see that they were extras.

I built a stairway that had a hidden closet underneath it. Most sofa's have a ton of dead space underneath and behind them, using velcro to close up the upholstery, I have made large volumes of space available under several of them.

Keep in mind that even the higher end "safes" have side walls and tops made of 12 guage steel usually, and with a diamond wheel, my little body grinder will just run right thru that, with not much more resistance than a skilsaw thru 1/2 inch plywood.

 

[P95loser]

Alarm that calls the police is better than any safe or cabinet.

Actually, I would much rather have a safe... Most monitoring companies go through a call list to verify an intruder before they ever even call the police. On top of that, a home security system only sends out monthly test calls the majority of the time.

Therefore, your monitoring company could never get the call that someone broke in if your phone lines are down or your panel is bad. On top of that, you are looking at 4-5 minutes from time of break-in to the time the patrol officer gets the radio call about your house and then has to drive over there (I live out far too).

The only thing about an alarm are the horns/strobes might scare someone off.

Back to the cabinet, I would not trust something I could punch a dent in to hold my guns.

 

[bluestarlizzard]

ok, we have one of those cabinets, mostly 'cause a safe would not be easy to install in our home*. we also have three dogs who do a very good imataion of "we want to eat you" if you come up to our house (and yes they're inside the house) and one (and its the one you don't expect based on looks) who WILL eat you if you come inside the house. secondly, only rifles are in the official gun cabinet. the handguns are locked up elsewhere. so point is, if BG wants to break in he's gotta get through the gauntlet (and for those who point out shooting the dogs, remember thats three moving targets) and then get to the guns. by the time he gets to the guns he's gonna have quite the array of puncture wounds. a gun cabinet is only as good as the defenses around it. if you feel that its enough go ahead. if you want something more secure, get a safe. yeah, in my dream house i'd have a safe, but for now its the cabinet.

*meaning it might just go right through the floor.

 

[atomchaser]

I have a Stack On cabinet that I use for storing ammo. I lost the key one time and needed to get in to it. It took about 30 sec with a 9V cordless drill to drill the lock out and open it up. It's good for keeping nosey little kids out and that's about it. Stack On is good about sending replacement locks, however.

 

[RubenZ]

Stealth is a better avenue anyway. I have built several pieces of furniture that hide the guns in plain sight, a coffee table with a sliding top that hid ten or more long guns, a bar with a flip top that held many weapons. Even using stuff like hanging two fake heating ducts off the main duct run in the basement, both held several long guns in sleeves, Unless you were able to read the print and look at the actual installation, you would not see that they were extras.

I built a stairway that had a hidden closet underneath it. Most sofa's have a ton of dead space underneath and behind them, using velcro to close up the upholstery, I have made large volumes of space available under several of them.

Keep in mind that even the higher end "safes" have side walls and tops made of 12 guage steel usually, and with a diamond wheel, my little body grinder will just run right thru that, with not much more resistance than a skilsaw thru 1/2 inch plywood.

THanks for telling everyone on the web where you keep your stuff and how.

 

[heySkippy]

I'm new at all this, but isn't secrecy the best first line of defense? By that I mean don't tell people about your weapons and to the extent it is possible, conceal the cabinet or safe.

I have wondered why a person couldn't build a false wall in a closet and keep valuables/guns/etc in compartment behind that. One could give up a couple feet of closet and make it almost invisible. It wouldn't be fireproof, but then most safes aren't truly fireproof either.

 

[RubenZ]

I have wondered why a person couldn't build a false wall in a closet and keep valuables/guns/etc in compartment behind that. One could give up a couple feet of closet and make it almost invisible. It wouldn't be fireproof, but then most safes aren't truly fireproof either.

Ya I'm kind of tempted to do that since I'm gonna be a newly wed and don't have much money. Besides, I'd rather my stuff burn in a fire than for a thief to get away with free!

 

[bluestarlizzard]

heyskippy,
notice i only mentioned the handguns where in another locked location. thats because they are not in plain veiw. and we keep it that way. its just hiding the rifles in a locked location in our home is a bit more difficult. we're working on that....