California public land destruction by shooters

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Blame that on shooters.

Hard not to when half the trash you're looking at consists of a ton and a half of empty cartridge cases and the other half is bullet riddled.
And if you look, there'll usually be the decaying remnants of a couch, a dozen bags of tree clippings and half a carload of used diapers, broken glass and paperwork (the number of name/address/phone/SSNs I've found on trash is astounding - no wonder identity thievery is so prevalent, talk about easy targets) no more than a hundred feet away.

I personally don't have much of an incentive to tote out my empties when it's obvious that no one is ever going to clean up a given area and no one is going to stop dumping ton after ton of waste there. Always took out my targets, though - when I even bothered to bring targets. There's so much crap lying around already that 99% of the time I'd just go out with some ammo and make my own.

I've since moved to Utah, where they seem to be much more proud of the fact that their state isn't a gigantic steaming trash heap, and I'll have you know that I'm perfectly capable of doing my part to keep that up. ;)
I have no doubt that you are. As are most of the shooters that I know.

The unfortunate thing is that not everyone is, and as shooters we tend to be conservative and inclined to mind our own business.

And in this case, it doesn't serve us well. I carry the number for the State poachers hot line with me, and have called them a couple of times when I have run across shooters who are obviously drunk or trashing an area, but Fish and Game has a spotty record.

And as for our much vaunted Sheriff Arpiao....the less said in this case, the better.
Figured I'd go ahead and state my defense before someone had a chance to tell me how I'm just another lazy bastard contributing to the problem. :neener:

At least in my part of SoCal, "spotty" was an understatement. I must've called to report at least ten parties dumping crap in the desert - one stayed in the immediate area for about a half-hour after I made the call, loitering and trying to cover up his tire tracks with an old broom. Nobody ever showed up.

With the sheer amount of that type of BS we had, they probably figure it's a lost cause and a waste of gas to send a ranger out.
Can't speak for so cal, but in no cal, a ranger has a huuuuuge area to cover. Some of these guys are dealing with booby trapped pot farms and armed drug dealers in national and state forests.

I remember talking to one guy who said he hated poaching calls, because he knew the perps would be armed. Sometimes these guys get shot.

Not to minimize the destruction of trash in our eco system, but cal's resources are stretched to the breaking point?
I have to agree, I used to live in California. I agree 100% about the attitude there; which is one of the many reasons I finally left.

My point still stands, though. If you care enough to complain about the mess, how about helping clean it up? Call the BLM and ask how you can volunteer to clean some of it up. Maybe they can bring a dump truck or something you can throw trash into.

The thing is, since there's so much hatred on paying taxes for government services, the BLM folks arent' going to spend their limited resources cleaning it up.

Next time you shoot, go in with some garbage bags, and pick up twice as much as you shot. It'll help, and it feels good.

Blame that on shooters.

I don't mean to be negative here, and if this sounds like I'm getting personal, I apologize.

By saying, "it's not my problem" you're contributing to the problem. It IS your problem, so do something about it.
Not to minimize the destruction of trash in our eco system, but cal's resources are stretched to the breaking point?

Pfft a lot of CA resources fund massive government bureaucracies and government agencies that require $4 for every $1 put towards the problems they exist to solve, most of the rest go to socialist programs.

Anytime you hear a politician tell you there is not enough funding for something in CA, its because they would rather just get new funds from new taxes someplace than fix the situation. Once government gets to a certain size it can vote itself increased budgets, labor unions can demand unnecessary government agencies stay open, and unnecessary employees remain on the payroll. It grows but it almost never shrinks. Government will always have its "resources stretched to the limit" because it will always spend everything you give it, even if you double its budget. The way they spend it will also get less accomplished dollar for dollar than it would being spent by people spending thier own money, or the private sector spending its own money.

That is why looking to the government to solve your problems is always the most foolish approach possible. You want government as small as possible and limited to the bare minimum of what is required, not attempting and failing to solve all the problems people face.

For example the government would pass new laws, and spend millions to clean up that trash, while taking freedoms from you, and you could clean it up for free in a day with 10 volunteers. Total money spent would consist of the gas and price of trash bags, and if the help was not free, thier help. Heck you could hire a bunch of illegals (lol) and clean that whole place up for a couple hundred bucks. The government would spend millions and implement strict gun restrictions. Government is rarely effecient, and involving them is a losing route.
Wow -- sorry to hear about this, and thanks for the thoughtful write-up.

I've mentioned before (so, apologies that I have so few stories to go around ;)) that my "local" (30-plus miles away from home) range was closed part of last year because miscreants had totally destroyed the substantial target stands with shotguns, one blast at a time. Eventually, a new set was constructed (by the State Game Lands folk who run these ranges), and since then the range was reopened and has so remained, but the shotgun-toting vandals are steadily working on destroying them again. Honestly, some human beings should think harder about whether they should reproduce .

I shoot on BLM land in the southern cal desert. I pick up after my self but there is so much junk that I could fill up the back of my pick up truck and it wouldn't make a dent. People shoot up appliances, TV's, computers, I have even seen cars and a jet ski. The places are total messes and all the junk attracts more junk. There use to be more ranges that were closer but they got closed because of all the trash. Mark
Nitrogen said:
Maybe they can bring a dump truck or something you can throw trash into.

Yeah, which would necessitate money for a driver to stay with it and gas to drive it back to wherever it came from every evening - else if it got left out overnight (or even unattended for a few hours during the day) it'd be tagged a dozen times, someone would have tried to pop one of the tires, the glass will all be shattered and whoever camped in the cab would have busted up the dash and consoles, stripped the wire for copper and stolen the gauges as souvenirs. :rolleyes:

By saying, "it's not my problem" you're contributing to the problem. It IS your problem, so do something about it.

No, I'm not contributing to the problem at all, thanks. Cleaning up after other idiots' messes is not my responsibility, particularly when those same idiots will be back the next weekend with a keg and six carloads of their idiot friends (and their idiot friends' trash) just like last time.

Prove to me that the authorities who get my tax money are at all capable of enforcing their own anti-dumping laws, and responding to violation calls in a timely manner, and I'll spend all week with a rake and a shovel cleaning up filth to go back to the dump - their truck or mine. But as long as any retard in the state can freely go back and dump whatever-the-hell they want without any chance of repercussion at all, what's the point?

railroader is understating the situation - ten truckloads wouldn't make a dent, much less one. Every square inch of Southern California's public land is covered with non-biodegradable trash. Some of these guys are going out with panel trucks filled to the roof with old car tires.
Dumping in rural areas is a huge problem unrelated to shooting in Southern California. It seems every week there is some new refrigerators, A/C units, Grills, Tires, washers and dryers, stoves, kitchen sinks, toilets and anything else that requires a disposal fee thrown in the side of the road or in the brush or bushes off the side of the road.

I recall one single lane remote road specificly that had hundreds of tons of trash that required lots of equipment and was extremely expensive to remove. They fenced the entire side of the road for miles because it was only a fraction of the cost to fence miles of desolate road that it would be to clean up after people again.

These are not just private individuals either, but include private contractors, construction and repair businesses etc because of the sheer volume and large number of similar items dumped on occasions.

Localy I have recorded it on security camera a couple times and been able to report the license number to the police. It is a several thousand dollar fine. However more often than not they get away with it. Any open area with a road or dirt road that is desolate seems to accumulate tons of such trash.
It is not limited to shooting areas.
I know for a fact a bunch of shooters from the San Diego area staged a cleanup of the carizo creek range (last real BLM shooting area in SD county) earlier this year. I couldn't make it (dealing with a sick family member), but they even got GREAT (positive) media coverage from the local right-wing rag/news channels. I haven't been out since the cleanup, but am looking forward to it. Got a new mosin coming in on Monday.....heh
We have a place like that here too in Mississippi, but our spot makes the one above look like a martha stewart garden! So Ive got a plan. 90% of the fellas at work are avid gun owners and shooters who are always complaining about having no where free to shoot. The other 10% are anti gun because of the typical stereo-type. I want to take them out there where i go but am almost embarrased too. So heres my plan. My work place is big on community service and public relations. Im going to introduce this place to everyone at our morning meeting. I know my supervisors will support it. Tell them its a free place to shoot. Organize a day during a friday where we all go over there and clean this place up. All the guys are gonna bring their guns and families and we will have a bbq and do some shooting. I think this is a great way to get more people interestd in reinforcing the 2nd, as well as helping to clean up our community a lil bit. Also to introduce the non believers to the joys of clean safe sport of shooting. And the county will be unaware of the mess before they can post it off limits. Thoughts or ideas on this?
There are two kinds of shooters:

1.) The responsible kind
2.) The immature/uneducated/callous/insensitive/moronic kind.

Looks like you came across #2. Sad thing is that there's too many #2's out there. *Just my observation of a couple of knuckleheads at a local gun show. Sad.
that really makes me sad. because of people like that, those of us who are respectful have fewer places to shoot.
People with guns aren't the only. Cigarette butts out the car window. Fast food wrappers too. It's disgusting.

Here's the border jumpers, doing the littering American's aren't willing to do.

With all the criminals living off the public dole in jail, you'd think we could get an honest day's labor out of them in exchange for free room and board. It's time for mobile jailhouses. There are plenty of places that could use litter removal.
Forest Service and BLM enforcement is mostly funded out of the Federal budget process, not the state. I say mostly because there are minor funds available for specific purposes such as green sticker funds for OHV enforcement. But generally, the funding comes from the same Federal government that can't find enough money to properly armor our troops.
That's a state sponsored shooting range :what: Wow... People complain about our Dept Of Conservation unmanned ranges and, even at their absolute worst, they look like heaven on earth compared to that range... or trash dump... or whatever. I'd be scared as sh** to camp there.

I went to the Knoxville Recreation Center website and they make it sound like a paradise :rolleyes:

I'm starting to realize and appreciate that the state of Missouri is pretty cool compared to most others :)
Tragedy of the commons, in living color. Sad, but hardly unexpected. When nobody owns a piece of property, no one will care about its upkeep.

I took some new shooters out to the range (private, members only) today. The last half-hour was spent cleaning up the range and policing our brass. I don't go to public ranges for the same reason I don't use public restrooms.

- Chris
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