CALL THE POLICE!!!

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Sounds to me like you did just fine. I have been involved in more than just a couple of physical altercations and I too call BS on the drunks are easy to fight deal. Especially when they are agressive, and out weigh you by 40lbs. I too am with you on the looking out for the girl. I would rather do right and live with the consequences, than do what is legally acceptable and live with the knowledge that she was hurt by my inaction.
 
Watch your six when the drunk gets free. His girl-friend will go back to him - they almost always do. Next time he gets roaring drunk you may be a marked man.

Fortunately it sounds as though he is only violent when he is not thinking too well.

The posts suggesting hand-to-hand before going to guns are talking absolute garbage. The only thing worse than a hand-to-hand fight is a hand-to-hand fight with a gun in the mix. If you can't hit a drunk with, at least, a baseball bat run like hell.

Some people have criticised your drawing. Perhaps they could explain what would have happened if instead of having your pistol CCW you had simply heard the fight while you were in your house. Most people do not wear a holster at home, the natural reaction would be to take a gun from a drawer and head outside. Would carrying a pistol in your hand because you did not have a holster in the house be brandishing? Or does brandishing only occur if your weapon was concealed in a holster in the first place? Is there any law against being on your own property with a pistol in your hand? Are you brandishing because a weapon is in view or must you make a threatening gesture with the firearm to be brandishing? (Technically the last situaton is correct - brandishing implies a threat, otherwise any open carry would be brandishing. You can "brandish" without removing your pistol from its holster - say by pulling back your jacket to expose a concealed pistol).

I think you did well. You carried out your civic duty in reporting a crime in progress. You used good judgement in protecting yourself and the woman involved. You were ready to escalate if needed but backed off when it was'nt required. Good job.
 
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Thain posted -
I'd suggest that if the Alpha Male is spending some time in county lock up, you introduce yourself to his (hopefully ex)girlfreind/wife. Much better that she know someone in the neighborhood to turn to next time, rather than locking herself up in the shed.

You might have better luck reaching out to her through your wife/girlfreind (if applicable). Battered women tend to have trust issues towards all men except their abuser.

You might also recommend to her a PPO and a CPL, depending on her situation.
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That sounds like a real bad plan. I would NOT inject myself between an emotionally dysfunctional woman and her abusive man. The LE will offer battered women resources that the locality has. If she decides to go back to her man, rather likely, it is because it fills a need she has. She will support him over you.
 
It's not us you have to convince - it's the 12 little old ladies that will be hand picked by the prosecution.

But you asked for suggestions: Here are a few.

1. Get a bluetooth capable phone with voice command. Use electrical tape to cover up the flashing blue ring that all bluetooth devices seem to have. Then when you ARE on the phone, nobody will be able to tell. Just tap the call button on the earpiece, tell it do dial 911 and you're connected. It also helps you to have the second hand free for a problem while staying in communication.

2. Cover, cover and more cover. First and foremost in your mind should have been to seek cover - lacking that, seek concealment.

3. Make no eye contact with the bad guy, it's taken as a threat by most. I find it easy to assess someone's intent without looking directly at them, practice it.

4. Deal with the facts that you KNOW, not the things you THINK YOU KNOW. You only knew - from your account, that the guy was verbally agressive and threatening, you didn't know he was high or drunk or that he had beaten his girlfriend up. You do know that the person he has agression towards seems to be safely behind a door. He was a missile in search of a target - getting out of his range was/is important. You know very little about him or the situation at hand, aside from his aggressive demeanor. Drawing conclusions to justify your actions, when those conclusions are based on supposition is what can get you arrested.

5. Get a copy of the statutes dealing with the use of deadly force in your state. THINKING you know what the law allows and KNOWING are two different things. What you had in front of you was an apparently unarmed man who was angry. The idea that you might have to shoot someone is always going to be there, I am no advocate of retreat when there is a life to be saved, but the only life in jeopardy there was yours - taking a stand rather than seeking cover could have ended your life. There are a lot of shootings out there - and there exists a significant chance that you would have missed him, or whatever shots hit him would not have stopped him, you have to think at least two steps ahead of him/it. Could you have, perhaps, continued down the street and increased the distance between you without ricking exposure? Retreating towards the home is instinctual, but it also means you are putting yourself into a box. It was probably the best thing, but you must think about keeping your options open.

7. Get/keep/use a high powered flashlight. Surefire makes something called the G2, pretty inexpensive and polymer. It comes with the P60 bulb/reflector assembly. Buy a P61 bulb assembly - it makes the normally bright G2 EXTREMELY bright, blinding even - it also cuts down on battery life from about an hour to 20 minutes. People who can only see purple tend to hesitate and pause, it also helps you distract them while seeking cover, not to mention the advantage you have at night when you need to positively identify a person or object.

8. Pepper spray. not all encounters are deadly, it works against dogs and two legged dogs - if you manage to get upwind of a two legged dog, you have a LOT of distance you can spray, I recommend the fogger type. It also helps to show that you had a second form of force available to you in an encounter, lets say you DO shoot someone who desperately deserves it. Being able to show, in court, that you had a choice in the level of force is important - otherwise you can be painted as someone who literally had no choice but to shoot someone in ANY encounter.

9. Remember that in domestic violence situations, the next morning the odds are that the woman will be back in love with her husband/boyfriend - and YOU will be the bad guy that sent him/it to jail or hurt him/it - the victim in a DV is NOT someone you can count on to back up your story when the smoke is clear.
 
I do not wish to sound harsh but owning a firearm does not make you a cop or give you special consideration. Would I call the police? Yes. But I would have removed myself from the incident. Had the guy walked over to my place with a weapon creating a threat I would protect myself. But then again steping into the house to use the phone would give me more protection and avoid having to be involved in a shooting incident.
Men who beat women are worms. I have delt with several hundred wife beaters and they never want to fight a man. They talk smack but never fight back.
 
Something else to remember if you had to shoot Bubba his wife would likely testify on his behalf as to how you tried to kill him for no reason while they were just talking.
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+1

The reason cops hate getting involved in domestic disputes is that most of the time they try to defend the poor woman, and she ends up whacking him with a frying pan, or jumping on his back and pulling his hair.

Much as I pity abused women, I would really think twice about coming between one and her abuser.

--Len.
 
My younger brother says that a domestic disturbance is one of the most volatile and potentially dangerous incidents to be involved in. At the risk of offending the feminists here many victims of domestic violence are victims by choice.
 
Thain posted -
I'd suggest that if the Alpha Male is spending some time in county lock up, you introduce yourself to his (hopefully ex)girlfreind/wife. Much better that she know someone in the neighborhood to turn to next time, rather than locking herself up in the shed.

You might have better luck reaching out to her through your wife/girlfreind (if applicable). Battered women tend to have trust issues towards all men except their abuser.

You might also recommend to her a PPO and a CPL, depending on her situation.
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Thain - are you not aware of the Universal Law that clearly states:

"No good deed goes unpunished"......?

Take heed.

:cool:
 
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308win said:At the risk of offending the feminists here many victims of domestic violence are victims by choice.
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I wouldn't go that far.

But in far too many instances of what is described as "domestic violence", a third party tries to assign the roles of "victim" and "aggressor" to the couple. Many abusive relationships contain elements of mutual combat. Viewed in isolation, the immediate circumstances may have easily defined roles. When the relationship is analyzed in totality, the innocence of the abused becomes more vague.


And . . . yes, some women do display a pattern of choosing men who abuse them.
 
As an update to this thread which just won't seem to die. The couple split up after the incident, and the girl and my wife became close friends after my wife hired her to work in the resteraunt she runs. The guy moved out a few days ago and I went over to help him load a couch into the back of his truck. It was a really odd. once in a lifetime kind of encounter.

When I first walked across the street he just stood there, staring at me, wondering I guess just what the hell I was up too. I didn't say a word. I just grabbed one end of the couch and motioned towards the truck. I don't think I would have gotten a stranger reaction had I punched him in the face.

After the couch was loaded I introduced myself and he did the same. I was going to avoid talking about the previous incident, but he brought it up. He looked me right in the face and said, "You the guy who called the cops on me?"

I said, "That depends. Are you the guy who stood out here and threatened to kill your girlfriend?"

He just nodded his head. He said, "Man I could have killed you that night and the next day, and the whole next week. But, I've dealt with it."

He said in the end that he was glad I called the cops, because he wasn't making idle threats. He said he had every intention of killing that girl that night, and that only me, the cops and a locked door had saved her life. He asked if I had noticed the baseball bat in his hands! (Well, hell no I didn't!)

Turns out he was high as a kite on Meth when the incident took place. Says she was cheating on him with his roomate and he caught them that night. My wife says the girl confided in her that it was true. Crazy, crazy stuff, but I guess that's what the world is coming too.

As a reply to the poster who suggested that because I am not LEO I have obligation to step in I ask this. What obligation did the police have to that girl? None. Their job is not to protect, but to preserve the law. I would like to think that as citizens we still have some responsibilty to each other. I like to believe that most folks will help another if they can. Call it old fashioned or ignorant or whatever else you want, but here in this sleepy little Mississippi town, I would be much more likely to be defended by the town for my actions than prosecuted by the DA.

I'm just glad everything ended the way it did and that the incident is something of the past for all involved. I do appreciate all of those who have commented and offered their advice. I see my mistakes and the areas where I did well. If a situation should arise in the future where my action is needed again, I think I will do a better job.
 
I just can't believe that in all of this I totally missed the bat in his hand!:what: Chalk it up to tunnel vision or whatever, but I never saw a bat. It certainly would have helped my case if I had to shoot, but I would have sworn his hands were empty. Guess that is why we are urged to call a lawyer before we talk to the police. Whew!
 
You were right for keeping an eye on that guy. When strange behavior is seen...many times it gets worse. Let me tell you my "incident'

I took a second job once...worked "6 to 10" pm at a service station. As I'm rounding the corner of my street, there is a middle age guy, standing by his truck, urinating in the middle of the street. From my drive way he was only about 250 feet down away.

I get in the house, loaded my shotgun, tell wifey about it, thats when we heard five or six rifle shots. I'm sneaking out the back, now around the house. There is Drew from across the street.

From Drew's yard we can see and hear him on a porch kicking the door and yelling for the girl to let him in. The porch lights are on. Two police race in and approach trying to get him to put down his gun. He turned, put the rifle under his chin...and ended everything.

Young lady(daughter of this mans wife) was unhurt...can't say as much for her car...multiple hits from a 30-30...the shots we heard.

The whole event lasted five minuets. So, when odd events start...pay close attention. You just never know where its going.

Mark.
 
Damn, hardtarget! I guess this thread has been good if for nothing else than for opening some eyes. Things can go from bad to worse fast, and even the most prepared can be suprised if they are not vigilant in maintaining situational awareness.
 
The OP did right.

FWIW, after all the physical danger is dealt with, keep out from between two such obviously screwed up folks.
 
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