CALL THE POLICE!!!
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ezypikns
Member
I'm no expert,
but you MIGHT be asking for trouble if you shoot an unarmed man, drunk or not. Especially if you 'put him down' because he's 'coming for you'. You just might do a stretch 'working for the state'.
but you MIGHT be asking for trouble if you shoot an unarmed man, drunk or not. Especially if you 'put him down' because he's 'coming for you'. You just might do a stretch 'working for the state'.
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marksman13
Member
I guess I'm gonna have to post a link containing Mississippi's self defense laws. Basically, in Mississippi, if you come onto my property with any sort of malicious intent, I can shoot you. It is that simple. From a legal standpoint I was covered. Mississippi has very open gun and self defense laws. See, sometimes it is good to be 20 years behind the rest of the country.
PS...Besides, whoever said the guy was unarmed. I had no way to know in the dark. All I knew is that a man, an obviously intoxicated and enraged man, who out-weighed me by 40 lbs was threatening me. If he had crossed the line onto my property I would have fired. Period. There were too many variables for me to risk putting myself or anyone else into any more danger in order for me to give this guy a "sporting chance".
PS...Besides, whoever said the guy was unarmed. I had no way to know in the dark. All I knew is that a man, an obviously intoxicated and enraged man, who out-weighed me by 40 lbs was threatening me. If he had crossed the line onto my property I would have fired. Period. There were too many variables for me to risk putting myself or anyone else into any more danger in order for me to give this guy a "sporting chance".
Please post that law. I'd be interested to see who the burden of proof of malicious intent falls on.
Jeff
pendentive
Member
So am I the only one that wants to know what happened to the girlfriend...?
Is she ok?
Is she ok?
In Oklahoma It is pretty clear. (Castle Doctrine was added to Make my Day in November 06)
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2005-06HB/HB2615_int.rtf
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2005-06HB/HB2615_int.rtf
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
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marksman13
Member
The girl is back at the house, and she seems to be okay. She isn't going to press charges.:banghead: Jeff, I will get you a link, but it is pretty dang close to Oklahoma's. I don't know if ours is worded quite as specifically as that though. I might have a little bit harder time making my case than Teedub would. Our castle doctorine basically etends our right to protect ourselves to our occupied car, place of business and any propeties owned by the person involved. Working on the link...
ready4shtf
Member
Um... "Release the Hounds!!!!!"
Sorry. No, I think you did the right thing.
Sorry. No, I think you did the right thing.
gunsmith
member
my only suggestion
is that you include a less then lethal in your daily
carry, pepper spray or the like.
Other then that, I do not like to let other peoples blood borne pathogens
get in contact with my skin.
People who fight junkies hand to hand risk hep,HIV & God knows what else.
you did good..afaik
is that you include a less then lethal in your daily
carry, pepper spray or the like.
Other then that, I do not like to let other peoples blood borne pathogens
get in contact with my skin.
People who fight junkies hand to hand risk hep,HIV & God knows what else.
you did good..afaik
Sounds to me like he handled himself well. He did what he could/needed to and was ready, willing, and able to ratchet up the level of force if needed. He didn't over-do or under-do, the situation was handled and nobody got hurt.
I'd imagine he would have been a bit more reluctant to get involved at all if he was unarmed and less able to protect himself should things have taken a turn for the worst. Chalk up another one for responsible gun ownership and CCW carry.
As an aside, in addition to LE, I spent a fair amount of time working as a bouncer and learned in a hurry that you never underestimate ANY opponent, paricularly one that is under the influence. It's a good way to get your ass whipped, or worse, in a hurry.
I'd imagine he would have been a bit more reluctant to get involved at all if he was unarmed and less able to protect himself should things have taken a turn for the worst. Chalk up another one for responsible gun ownership and CCW carry.
As an aside, in addition to LE, I spent a fair amount of time working as a bouncer and learned in a hurry that you never underestimate ANY opponent, paricularly one that is under the influence. It's a good way to get your ass whipped, or worse, in a hurry.
Thain
Member
Act 309 of 2006 said:
Here in Michigan, you'd be perfectly fine if you had shot him. You were not engaged in the commission of a crime* and certainly have a legal right to be in your own front yard!
The man was clearly antagonistic and had a violent intent. Anyone with experience boxing, fencing, or wrestling can back me up on this: twelve feet from you is the same as touching you. If a hostile person comes within 5-7 yards of me, and I know I'm in the right, I would draw and point my weapon at them. Probably fire...
Backing away was a good idea, although I think you had no "duty to retreat" (in Michigan you wouldn't legally), still its not a bad idea to try. Drawing you weapon, but not presenting it seemed a good move, and one I will add to my repertoire.
Lyn Bates wrote a good piece, Lessons in Reality: Bitches with Guns where the heroine does, essentially, the same thing. A weapon in hand, but out of sight, saves her life. You might consider printing out a copy for your neighbor.
* Unless your city has "curb your dog" ordinances
Nasty Jack
member
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First rule in CCW is that you don't haul the gun out until the bullets are ready to fly. When you draw your firearm, you're providing the other guy with LEGAL DEFENSE to draw his gun and shoot you. After all, you just pulled a gun on him.
I had a neighbor charge across his property and onto mine once. The gun came out. I mostly intended just to get a grip on it, but the reaction to his charge caused me to draw out of the holster. Police arrived and were concerned about my pulling out the gun -- even on my own property.
Mostly the legal charge for showing the gun is "Brandishing" or "Menacing" depending on the situation.
If you had time to get at the cell phone and draw your gun, you had time to get into the house, lock the door and call the police. In court the other atty. will argue that your actions were "confrontational" and that you escalated the situation.
Yeah, justice sux. You don't want anyone to know you have a gun until the bullets are coming out the barrel at them. CCW is not a negotiation chip that you can toss into the pot to raise the stakes.
I wonder in this story if the police realized you pulled your gun and stood outside to call 911. They'd have given you the same little lecture I just gave you.
I had a neighbor charge across his property and onto mine once. The gun came out. I mostly intended just to get a grip on it, but the reaction to his charge caused me to draw out of the holster. Police arrived and were concerned about my pulling out the gun -- even on my own property.
Mostly the legal charge for showing the gun is "Brandishing" or "Menacing" depending on the situation.
If you had time to get at the cell phone and draw your gun, you had time to get into the house, lock the door and call the police. In court the other atty. will argue that your actions were "confrontational" and that you escalated the situation.
Yeah, justice sux. You don't want anyone to know you have a gun until the bullets are coming out the barrel at them. CCW is not a negotiation chip that you can toss into the pot to raise the stakes.
I wonder in this story if the police realized you pulled your gun and stood outside to call 911. They'd have given you the same little lecture I just gave you.
sacp81170a
Member
marksman13:
Bingo. Ya done good. Called police, made no threatening gestures, prepared to defend yourself without letting the BG in on the fact, and stood your ground where you had a perfect legal right to be. Good thing it didn't escalate, because even if the law is on your side, you'd still probably have gone for a ride and been inconvenienced. My advice as far as the neighbor goes: unless she's already a friend, don't intrude where you're not known and possibly not wanted. Some people will see the Good Samaritan as an Easy Mark. Don't put yourself any farther into the situation than you have to.
Bingo. Ya done good. Called police, made no threatening gestures, prepared to defend yourself without letting the BG in on the fact, and stood your ground where you had a perfect legal right to be. Good thing it didn't escalate, because even if the law is on your side, you'd still probably have gone for a ride and been inconvenienced. My advice as far as the neighbor goes: unless she's already a friend, don't intrude where you're not known and possibly not wanted. Some people will see the Good Samaritan as an Easy Mark. Don't put yourself any farther into the situation than you have to.
Let me get this straight. You're a few feet from your door and you think the best way to protect yourself from a loudmouth drunk who is across the street is to "put him down" if he comes towards you?
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury," the prosecutor sums up, "the defendant could have retreated safely to his front door, but instead, chose to use deadly force against the decedent." Etc, etc.
Certainly, the situation would be very different if he clearly was armed with any kind of a visible weapon. Still, the *smart* thing to do is move towards the safety of your home while keeping your eyes on the guy and the cell phone in your hand.
K
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury," the prosecutor sums up, "the defendant could have retreated safely to his front door, but instead, chose to use deadly force against the decedent." Etc, etc.
Certainly, the situation would be very different if he clearly was armed with any kind of a visible weapon. Still, the *smart* thing to do is move towards the safety of your home while keeping your eyes on the guy and the cell phone in your hand.
K
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marksman13
Member
Hahahaha...BD...I'm actually way north of Jackson. Around Starkville. Great town, but universities do bring their problems. What is Jackson's mayor's name again? He has got to be a blood relative of Ray Nagin.
.
If that's the case then there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG with the
legal system. From the original story, this man sounds very large and
very drunk and very angry, perfectly capable of killing someone, armed
or unarmed.
Sounds to me like we're trying to judge the aggressor's intentions and/or
ability to seriously harm or kill. That's just not how I look at things.
Maybe he should have gone inside, but he wanted to keep an eye on the
situation.
If that's the case then there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG with the
legal system. From the original story, this man sounds very large and
very drunk and very angry, perfectly capable of killing someone, armed
or unarmed.
Sounds to me like we're trying to judge the aggressor's intentions and/or
ability to seriously harm or kill. That's just not how I look at things.
Maybe he should have gone inside, but he wanted to keep an eye on the
situation.
ezypikns
Member
The legal system isn't perfect.
Maybe so.
In most cases, unless this man has kicked in your door and entered your home without your permission, it's up to YOU to prove this.
That has got to be the primary goal in every use of deadly force, no matter how you look at it.
Maybe so.
In most cases, unless this man has kicked in your door and entered your home without your permission, it's up to YOU to prove this.
That has got to be the primary goal in every use of deadly force, no matter how you look at it.
Optical Serenity
Member
Only thing different I would have done was to spray him with some OC if he got closer. I do agree with your decision to draw your weapon. You did a good job with concealing it but keeping it hidden.
Super Trucker
Member
Be careful
That castle doctrine law says you don't have to run, but keep in mind an asswhipin isn't a lethal threat. You would have to convince a jury that a drunk that was yelling and beating a shed was a lethal threat, I hope people near my house don't think like that. Just because you do not want somebody close to you, doesn't mean you can shoot them. I see no reason that his gun should have left the holster. What if he witnessed the guy force the shed open and drag the girl out by her hair? Are you just going to start blasting? I think you did good by calling the law but leave the gun in the holster next time, I don't want to read about you in the news, " a local resident with a concealed handgun permit, shot an unarmed man today because he was yelling. blah blah blah"
Good luck
DomMega
Member
I'd suggest that if the Alpha Male is spending some time in county lock up, you introduce yourself to his (hopefully ex)girlfreind/wife. Much better that she know someone in the neighborhood to turn to next time, rather than locking herself up in the shed.
You might have better luck reaching out to her through your wife/girlfreind (if applicable). Battered women tend to have trust issues towards all men except their abuser.
You might also recommend to her a PPO and a CPL, depending on her situation.
That could definitely bring some drama. I would stay out of it for the most part, she's aware that there's numbers she could call and I'm sure the LEO's also gave her some options at the time of his arrest, they always do. I'm sure she's aware of what she can do from a legal standpoint and a personal standpoint, its just sad that in those situations they tend to just not do anything until they're almost killed or do actually end up dead.
You might have better luck reaching out to her through your wife/girlfreind (if applicable). Battered women tend to have trust issues towards all men except their abuser.
You might also recommend to her a PPO and a CPL, depending on her situation.
That could definitely bring some drama. I would stay out of it for the most part, she's aware that there's numbers she could call and I'm sure the LEO's also gave her some options at the time of his arrest, they always do. I'm sure she's aware of what she can do from a legal standpoint and a personal standpoint, its just sad that in those situations they tend to just not do anything until they're almost killed or do actually end up dead.
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