Calling All Bullseye Shooters (Installment #1)

[USBP1969]

I am posting this in the semi-auto section since I believe that most bullseye shooters now use semi-autos for competition.

Over my 33 years of carrying a sidearm professionally as well as10 more years after retirement under Title 18 USC 926 I have discovered a couple of things that just might help putting more tens and “X’s” on target.

I am not a bullseye shooter, although I had planned to shoot bullseye with wheel guns after retirement, but now at age 71, I believe that dream has slipped away since I have been a full-time caregiver since 2008.

These discoveries occurred while I was serving as a Firearms Instructor at our academy and, to say the least were revolutionary for me.

Discovery #1: I was doing a study of recoil arc with a 4” Model-28 and 158 grain JSP .357. I was using a cinder block wall to my left to provide a visual reference to document the differences between different firing positions.

First Test: I first shot the Model-28 “Bullseye” style one handed with my weight evenly distributed on both feet which were about shoulder width.

Second Test: The second positon was standing squarely facing the target with the Model-28 held in two hands with what’s called an “Isosceles” stance. (Neutral stance, not leaned back, or forward)

Third Test: The third position was what’s been called “The Weaver Stance” named after deputy sheriff Jack weaver by Col. Jeff Cooper. It uses an “isometric” grip (push-pull) with the non-gun side toward the target and the gun side away from the target. The body position is exactly like what’s called the “FI” stance in law enforcement.

Fourth Test: Using the “Bullseye” stance again (Just fooling around actually) I leaned into the weapon, much like a sword thrust with most of my weight on my lead foot, forward knee slightly bent, and trailing leg locked straight. (Just imagine thrusting your pistol’s slide through the center of the bullseye.)

Results:

Position #1: It performed just as expected with a large recoil arc.

Position #2: It exhibited about 1/2 the recoil arc of position #1.

Position #3: This position showed a improvement over
Position # 2. (Note: this result can vary according to the
experience the shooter has using the Weaver stance.)

Position #4: This was a real surprise. This one-handed, sword
thrust, position was noticeably superior to positions 1,2
and 3!! Please note that it wasn’t more steady than the
two-handed positions, but did provide a significantly
reduced recoil arc and therefore quicker recoil recovery.

To me, as a Firearms Instructor it was revelatory. It meant that our dog handlers would not feel limited in their ability to fire accurately and rapidly one handed and Agents who experienced loss of use of one hand could still return accurate fire if they used this position.

But…what does it mean to a bullseye shooter? It means that this position can be especially beneficial in the rapid fire stage allowing them to can get back on target quicker than using the standard stance and would be especially beneficial when firing the Distinguished Match timed and rapid fire.

Well, the care receiver is calling for a multitude of things to be done, so I will have to make this “Installment #1” of two. (#2 = Slow Fire Accuracy)

I sincerely hope this helps some folks enjoy the sport even more than they do now.

Respectfully,
USBP1969

 

[Old Fuff]

Yup… You have re-discovered something that was well known decades ago, but largely forgotten after two-hand holds became popular for “combat” shooting.

Now, as you extend the right arm (if it’s the one holding the gun) relax it and turn it so the handgun is horizontal with the slide/sights are at about 3:00.

Next, push the arm forward so as to make it seem you are trying the push the gun through the target, while rotating the arm counter-clockwise to bring the sights back to 12:00 where they belong.

All this tensions the muscles and tendons in the arm and wrist and makes the stance even more rigid. When the gun rises in recoil you will likely keep the arm straight and not bend the forearm upward from the elbow so recovery is faster.

 

[USBP1969]

Thank you sir. Very Interesting.

USBP1969

 

[pendennis]

Thanks, guys. Very interesting.

I have noticed, that in using the "push/pull" isometric of the Weaver stance, that I tend to sometimes "overpower" the pistol with my left hand. I'm right-eye dominant and left handed, therefore, I've always shot right-handed.

When practicing, I noticed that my shots started to pull left and low. At first, I thought it was the sights on a new pistol. However, I then tried going back to the standard bulls eye position of one hand, and off-hand in my pants pocket. No more pulling left and down. I now practice a great deal more concentrating on "less" left hand. Few, if any pulls.

You've both provided some great tips!

 

[USBP1969]

Hi Dennis.

I like to mention two things, if I may.

First:
Usually when a detail instructor came to me with a low left shooter (gun in right hand) it turned out to be trigger control and pushing into recoil.

Humans were not born to be shooters. Loud noises indicate danger and "startle" us while anything that jumps at our face is also perceived by our subconscious as a threat.

How does the mind protect its owner? Well, if one "knows" exactly when the handgun will fire then they will not be startled. Also if they "know" exactly when it will jump at their face, they can push it away. Also, some shooters "slam" their eyes shut just before they jerk the trigger.

I taught one fellow recently who had wanted to shoot for years and had given up. It was sad actually as he said to me as we entered the range, "Please don't expect too much from me." (and...that was after a 45 minute orientation covering the above topics.)

His self protection program was so strong that when he fired his first "surprise" shot he ducked under the shooting bench exclaiming, "Wow! Did you see that big ball of fire?"
He had been closing his eyes, jerking the trigger and pushing into recoil for years.

You can check yourself by putting a dummy round "somewhere" in the magazine and then seeing what happens when you attempt to fire that dummy round.

I remember one student who said after darn near getting dirt in his barrel, "Ah..sir, that only happens when I hit a dummy round."

If you experience what he did on the dummy round then there are two ways to correct that situation. If you have to shoot alone, recognize what's happening, focus on sight alignment and TRIGGER CONTROL while telling your self that the next hammer fall will be on a dummy round and that you don't want to embarrass yourself. (I still sight in .44 magnums that way - it helps.) If you have someone with you can trust who is a good shot, you can have them place one hand on your shooting arm's shoulder blade and then rest their trigger finger on top of yours as you aim a loaded weapon at the target. Tell them when you are ready and have your trigger finger relaxed. Let them apply a steadily increasing pressure on the trigger until the weapon fires. It will be a truly "surprise" shot, and while not as accurate as you getting one yourself, it'll be a good one and really revelatory if you have been unknowingly protecting yourself.

That's what I did with the shooter mentioned above. It was his first surprise shot and was dead center. I repeated shooting with him for a few more shots, explaining that he was doing everything very well except controlling the trigger and his mind. As far as slamming his eyes shut I gave him a choice of using sharpened tooth picks to keep them open or to consciously watch his front sight during the recoil arc. He chose procedure #2.

He shoots better than me now. (I do have an excuse though being 71 and not getting to the range but every few months.)

I have used the same procedure many, many times with the same result, even with DAO semi-automatics. I recently had the privilege of helping a new police officer who was in danger of not being retained by his department due to poor shooting. After working with him both dual and letting him shoot solo, he was shooting nice groups. I asked his instructor if he would simply run this officer over and over on the state qualification course with no time limit until he had it nailed and then start imposing increasingly shorter time limits. I am told that he qualified handily.

2nd thing: You may or may not have heard of Col. Jeff Copper who founded IPSC with some other folks and owned and ran Gunsite Academy / Ranch for many years. Why do I mention him? Well, he once told me that he was "cross dominant." He was left eye dominant and right handed. He further stated that he used his non-dominant eye when doing a photo shoot for a magazine or book, so it'll not show up in any of his photos.

Over the 15 years I served as a firearms instructor for my agency and other federal agencies I have seen literally thousands of cross dominant shooters. When we test a class on day one, probably 1/5 > 1/4 of the class will be cross dominant. You see, unless one is shooting a shoulder weapon it makes absolutely no difference which eye one uses when shooting a handgun. In other words, if you were my student I would encourage you to shoot left handed.

The really difficult students are those with no dominant eye. If one is shooting simply as a hobby and they can close one eye then there's no problem, but if one carries a sidearm to defend themselves, then it's very important to have both eyes open because one loses approximately 1/3 of their tactical vision when they close one eye.

How does one "train" an eye to be dominant when shooting? Well, we simply put a piece of clear Scotch tape on the non gun side lens of their shooting glasses. Their brain automatically selected the clearer image and ran with it. It's called "compensation." I made the mistake of trying it on myself for 3 hours one day on the range and when I put my regular shooting glasses on my brain had already made the switch! Took me a few minutes (talk about panic) to get back to my normal right master eye.

So, I really encourage you to shoot with your dominant hand and use whatever eye sees the sights better. It'll take a little adjustment when operating the handgun while loading and unloading as well as perhaps another holster, but it's well worth it. Just remember to match the dominant eye with the shoulder from which the long gun will be fired.

Hope this helps.

Good shooting,
-kent

 

[Old Fuff]

On trigger pulls:

Of the many fine pistol shooters I’ve known, one of the best had suffered a serious injury to his trigger finger in an industrial accident. As a result he had little or no feeling at the end of that finger. When he pressed a trigger he had absolutely no way of knowing when the gun was going to go off, and as a consequence never flinched.

Short of having what happened to him, happen to you, a better solution is to concentrate on your sight picture and the “circle of movement” the target appears to be moving in, with such complete focus of attention that the trigger’s break comes as a complete surprise. When you can do this jerks and flinches will be a thing of the past.

 

[SAS Mayhem]

Excellent post. I'm always looking for way to improve my shooting.

Cheers
Ron

 

[Mousegun]

I did a lot of bullseye shooting in the 80's and 90's and found that time was my friend.

The "time" I am talking about is the repeated time or times of experiencing the recoil of a wide variety of guns and calibers.

I realized that at some point, the natural reaction to recoil, which is often the cause of flinch, was no longer a factor in shooting accuracy.

As you build up strength in the arm and shoulder that holds the gun out as far as possible with one hand, natural movement decreases and you get the benefit of an extended site radius which makes for a better site picture.