Calling All Fudds: The Zumboing of Zumbo and the RKBA
- Thread starter Sharp Phil
- Start date
- Status
Rem700SD
Member
Well said.
Dan
Dan
The most salient argument is the idea that no matter what type of gun you have, the anti-gunners don't think you should have it.
EBRs: Oh my. There is no place for them in a civilized society. Ban them.
Handguns: Easily concealable, and intended to kill people. Ban them.
Shotguns: Dear Lord. Do you know how powerful they are? And you don't even have to aim. That nutjob used one in Salt Lake City. Ban them.
Deer rifles: Ohmygawd. That's a sniper rifle. You could assassinate someone with that! Ban it.
If we don't hang together, we most assuredly will hang separately. Zumbo was trying to throw one group of gunowners under the bus with the deluded idea that if he sells them out, the Brady Bunch will leave him alone with his [strike]hunting[/strike] sniper rifles.
They won't. He's an idiot.
However, my one concern in all of this is that we, the 'military arms' crowd, will go too far and alienate the hunters. Yes, yes, there are Fudds in the world, but one catches more flies with honey. Did Zumbo need to be, well, zumboed? Yes. Absolutely. But let's not alienate the rest of the hunters who might not get it. We're supposed to be on the same side. We make more progress by talking with the "Fudds" than we do by yelling at them and, erm, calling them names.
Mike
EBRs: Oh my. There is no place for them in a civilized society. Ban them.
Handguns: Easily concealable, and intended to kill people. Ban them.
Shotguns: Dear Lord. Do you know how powerful they are? And you don't even have to aim. That nutjob used one in Salt Lake City. Ban them.
Deer rifles: Ohmygawd. That's a sniper rifle. You could assassinate someone with that! Ban it.
If we don't hang together, we most assuredly will hang separately. Zumbo was trying to throw one group of gunowners under the bus with the deluded idea that if he sells them out, the Brady Bunch will leave him alone with his [strike]hunting[/strike] sniper rifles.
They won't. He's an idiot.
However, my one concern in all of this is that we, the 'military arms' crowd, will go too far and alienate the hunters. Yes, yes, there are Fudds in the world, but one catches more flies with honey. Did Zumbo need to be, well, zumboed? Yes. Absolutely. But let's not alienate the rest of the hunters who might not get it. We're supposed to be on the same side. We make more progress by talking with the "Fudds" than we do by yelling at them and, erm, calling them names.
Mike
gunsmith
member
well said plus 100
Phil, I was angry at him...and now I know that I was right.
He should lose his job.
we should all hang together because we will surely hang seperately...or something like that.
ooh...enough with the fudd stuff, we need all the friends we can get.
Phil, I was angry at him...and now I know that I was right.
He should lose his job.
we should all hang together because we will surely hang seperately...or something like that.
ooh...enough with the fudd stuff, we need all the friends we can get.
Sharp Phil
Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2003
- Messages
- 47
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
A relatively small group of us restored Minnesota's Personal Protection Act after a misguided judge overturned it a couple of years back, mostly using the Internet. It was amazing what a dedicated group of people could do with a little organization, good communication and coordination, and some hard work. A much larger group of us can do the same when it comes to preventing heinous new laws like H.R. 1022, the new assault weapon ban. Part of the way we will do this is by absolutely and ruthlessly destroying people who use their public forum to promote unconstitutional laws like an AWB, which is what Zumbo was doing. We didn't have the sort of populist power that the Internet gives us in 1994. We do now. Let's use it effectively. Part of that means utterly discrediting people like Zumbo the second they speak out in public.
While I realize that the essay defined the term “Fudd” to mean “an ignorant hunter who sees no connection between his "sporting firearms" -- his hunting tools -- and his firearms rights,” the term used in a colloquial sense could easily be taken to be a put down of all hunters generally. Looking around on some other forums that throw the term around loosely, in one week I have been insulted by the EBR people for being a Fudd while being labeled a “terrorist” by Zumbo. It’s not a happy place to be. The response to being labeled a terrorist should not be to throw back another insult. Sorry, but people need to come up with another term to describe a “2A disconnected hunter.”
Sharp Phil
Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2003
- Messages
- 47
The definition in no way implies that all hunters are ignorant or fail to support the Second Amendment. Some hunters are Fudds. Most are not.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
Now that the government has shown its intent to whittle away at our Second-Amendment rights, this situation has entered the filthy realm of politics, a dirty business in which there is no room for those who are too tender about their own preciousness. "Fudds" is a good, workable term, and if it offends those with thin skin, then politics is probably too rough a sport for them to get involved with in the first place. Those who would use "Fudds" against us will just use something else against us without this term. They count on us to cower under the tyranny of political correctness as part of their strategy. I say we don't hold any punches and nuke the S.O.B.s.
Excellent, excellent argument. Thank you, Phil.
My only problem with your piece, is what redneckrepairs touched on: the wisdom of using the Fudds term. No matter how right you are on the facts, using demeaning names generally doesn’t change minds, except maybe in the wrong direction.
If you have written these people of as hopeless, and beyond reach (like the hard-core antis), then categorizing them that way may be useful in influencing undecided 3rd parties.
But, if you really want them to “see the light”, I think that throwing verbal elbows will not help. My feeling is that the only good use for group names, is when dealing with the people involved as a group. If you hope to sway individuals at the margins, then demeaning their “tribe” just promotes tribal solidarity, and may have an effect opposite to what you intend.
If we lose the war for minds because some people are offended, will we be consoled by the fact that they were just too thin skinned? Sarah Brady would love some of the stuff I am reading on the forums. Dialogue is a lot easier to start from a neutral position than by calling someone a name. I was and remain a proponent of Zumbo losing his sponsorships, but I wouldn't fire back by calling him a Fudd. Rather, I would hope to convince him that he was wrong, and hope that he comes back as a zealot for the cause, and sway the other uninformed people who may be thinking like he was.
Technosavant
Member
Excellent article, Phil. Fine work.
I am hoping that the Zumbo episode and the "Fudd" term actually creates greater 2A enthusiasm among casual hunters and shooters. If the hunters and those who thought the same way educate themselves and open their eyes, they will see what we have been saying- if you offer up any guns for a ban, you're just moving the banning crowd one step closer to the guns you hold dear, and you are also sacrificing the sacred Constitution at the same time.
Yes, the term "Fudd" is derogatory and inflammatory, but it is also valuable. It serves as a knock upside the head that some people will need to realize that the Second Amendment is NOT about hunting. Many parts of the shooting community has swallowed that lie, and they are working against the 2A while thinking they are upholding it. Maybe if they realize that there is a derogatory term for their frame of mind, they will ask why and seek to educate themselves on the issues.
Zumbo, although he has given the Brady crowd a freebie, may have done us a favor by mobilizing more people in favor of the RKBA. To the hunters and "sportsmen" who have previously thought of milsurp or black rifle crowds as extremists but have changed your minds: Write your congressmen. Vote for 2A politicians. Contribute to the cause. If this gets us moving forward, it may be ironic, but we may have to thank Zumbo for getting people riled up.
I am hoping that the Zumbo episode and the "Fudd" term actually creates greater 2A enthusiasm among casual hunters and shooters. If the hunters and those who thought the same way educate themselves and open their eyes, they will see what we have been saying- if you offer up any guns for a ban, you're just moving the banning crowd one step closer to the guns you hold dear, and you are also sacrificing the sacred Constitution at the same time.
Yes, the term "Fudd" is derogatory and inflammatory, but it is also valuable. It serves as a knock upside the head that some people will need to realize that the Second Amendment is NOT about hunting. Many parts of the shooting community has swallowed that lie, and they are working against the 2A while thinking they are upholding it. Maybe if they realize that there is a derogatory term for their frame of mind, they will ask why and seek to educate themselves on the issues.
Zumbo, although he has given the Brady crowd a freebie, may have done us a favor by mobilizing more people in favor of the RKBA. To the hunters and "sportsmen" who have previously thought of milsurp or black rifle crowds as extremists but have changed your minds: Write your congressmen. Vote for 2A politicians. Contribute to the cause. If this gets us moving forward, it may be ironic, but we may have to thank Zumbo for getting people riled up.
falling leaves
Member
While name calling has always and will continue to be an excellent way of shutting down a discussion, I think that having the term 'Fudd' being thrown around here and there could open the door to enlighten a few more folks. This whole episode is high profile enough to be the subject of conversation not just at the range, but with anyone remotely connected to the firearms community. When was the last time you had a discussion regarding the true basis of the second, and the associated politics, with that uninvolved gun owner at work? This could be the perfect vehicle to initiate that conversation.
As to the rest of the blog article: Mr. Elmore, those were truly well crafted words. My hat is off to you, please keep writing, and I will be refering people to your site. And (if you don't mind) I'll be borrowing a couple of them here and there - excellent sig line material.
As to the rest of the blog article: Mr. Elmore, those were truly well crafted words. My hat is off to you, please keep writing, and I will be refering people to your site. And (if you don't mind) I'll be borrowing a couple of them here and there - excellent sig line material.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
Good job Phil.You have truly articulated what many of us feel but cannot express as well as you did.And congratulations on your comments being adopted as sig lines....a great compliment here on THR.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
No one is calling Sarah Brady a "Fudd."
No one is saying that anyone is.
Reread what WYO wrote. He's making the same point as me, I think. Zumboing Zumbo is a good thing. Calling a Fudd a Fudd is probably a good thing, provided that the hunter in question is doing the functional equivalent of what Zumbo did; going out and actively trying to toss his brothers in arms under the bus in order to solidify his own position with the Antis. However, just as there are a lot of hunters who "get it", there are also a lot of hunters who don't, and could be called Fudds, but who are not advocating anything- they just don't care.
It is in our best interest- all of our best interest- to make them care. Calling them names and beating them over the head is not the best way to do make them fight alongside us. Reaching out to them and explaining- calmly, rationally, logically- why they're in the same boat as us does a lot more towards building unity than just calling some guy who just likes to shoot Bambi and doesn't get the whole RKBA thing a Fudd.
Now, if he is being a bigot, game on. If he is just clueless, let's not increase the divide any more. Reach out to him, but not to smack him upside the melon.
Mike
cbsbyte
Member
I never heard of this guy before, since I don't read OL, or even hunt. But what he said in his article is a view that many gun owners, and Americans believe. The media and Brady group have effectivley implanted the idea in many peoples minds, including that of many gun owners that EBR(Assault Weapons) have no use except to kill people, and thus should be banned. I would suspect Mr Zumbo is in shock that his words have created such an uproar since his views are shared by many of his hunting buddies. Though I am glad to see people use their 1st Ad rights to defend people who own EBR, on the other hand he has every right to believe EBR should be banned. He is an individial, that rightly or wrongly believe what he stated and he has a right to his beliefs. Calling him names because he does subscribe to your beliefs, is not constuctive to anyone nor does it help the situation. I am appalled at some of the names people are calling him just for sharing his viewpoint. Trying to teach him constructivley why he is wrong is a better solution than calling him a idiot. I guess gun owners do eat their own.
Deanimator
Member
I'd never heard of the guy before this, so I had no preconceptions one way or the other.
There was REAL venom in his comments. I don't know if he was ever in the military, but I sure didn't feel like a "terrorist" while toting an M16A1 in Korea in '81. I don't feel like one now, because I keep an AR15 carbine for self-defense.
I don't call him a "Fudd". I call him a Quisling and worse. He's like the Jews who rounded up other Jews for the Nazis. He's a Judas and a backstabber trying to sell the rest of us out because he thinks that by doing so, he can keep the Winchester 94 that his erstwhile masters label a "sniper rifle".
Phil,
Thanks for the excellent essay!
On the whole, I think what Mr. Zumbo did is a positive thing for RKBA on the whole. First, it has shown that we have a powerful tool to create change. Second, we know that we must be united. Third, having read Mr. Zumbo's posts on the Nugent board, I think he might eventually be an excellent spokesperson for dealing with Fudds. If we get Zumbo to realize his ignorance, and get his support, what Fudd can't we help?
Thanks for the excellent essay!
On the whole, I think what Mr. Zumbo did is a positive thing for RKBA on the whole. First, it has shown that we have a powerful tool to create change. Second, we know that we must be united. Third, having read Mr. Zumbo's posts on the Nugent board, I think he might eventually be an excellent spokesperson for dealing with Fudds. If we get Zumbo to realize his ignorance, and get his support, what Fudd can't we help?
The Cavalry
Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2006
- Messages
- 201
Outdoor Life magazine just punted him completely today:
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/columnists/article/0,19912,1592623,00.html
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/columnists/article/0,19912,1592623,00.html
- Status
