Camel Hunting?

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merlinfire

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Check this out:

http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/06/10/australia-killing-camels-for-carbon-credits/?hpt=hp_t2

Feral camels have never gotten much love in the Australian bush. Considered to be an invasive species, they graze native plants to the point of local extinction. They walk across roads in the middle of the night. They trample fences. Now one Australian company has a plan to get rid of the camel scourge once and for all. The proposition? Kill a camel, get a carbon credit.

Don't know how the whole carbon credit thing would work, but maybe it could be a self-funding hunting trip?
 
Flying around the Aussie outback in a jet trubine powered helicopter shooting camels as you go sounds ENTIRELY "carbon neutral" to me. Doesn't it to you?
 
Flying around the Aussie outback in a jet trubine powered helicopter shooting camels as you go sounds ENTIRELY "carbon neutral" to me. Doesn't it to you?

Haha, maybe not but it sure would be fun! And the point is you could in theory sell the carbon credits back to the Aussie Gov to finance the trip!
 
I have no problem with shooting camels, from the standpoint of habitat protection. But to use camel farts as a justification for having cars and electricity strikes me as hypocrisy of a rather high order. What's next? Elephants? Bean eaters?

Mind-boggling.
 
calaverasslim said:
eeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, whats a carbon credit???

Heard of 'cap and trade'?

It is a government created commodity.


Various businesses are issued a fixed amount of pollution credits. Some need more credits than they are issued to function, while other businesses do not.
This means those that need less than they get can sell theirs to the businesses that need more for a profit.
The system is sold with the plan to issue a certain amount of credits each year and then reduce the total credits issued, squeezing everyone and forcing change to less pollution by making it too expensive to operate in the same way.

For example in the US one of the most abundant natural resources is coal.
It accounts for the largest source of electrical power (those electric cars run by burning coal someplace else instead of gasoline in the engine.)
It is dirty and produces a lot of pollution when used, and is often mined in ways that destroy the land, but at a time when people complain about oil prices and domestic and foreign related policies, realize the threat nuclear power poses from the Japan example, realize the danger from drilling for oil offshore as caused in the Gulf from one single oil well, coal really is key to producing necessary levels of energy.
Contrasted against risks coal use creates moderate known and anticipated problems, while several other energy sources have unexpected catastrophes of great magnitude every so often.
220px-2008_US_electricity_generation_by_source_v2.png


But with cap and trade, coal burning plants, oil refineries etc, must spend money to purchase credits, then pass on that increased overhead to the consumer in higher costs.
This also makes coal, one of our few abundant US resources, less competitive with some other power producing options through the artificially inflated cost of using coal.
Which is of course the intent, but most renewable energy sources produce tiny amounts of power. Entire hydro electric dams might power a small area, hundreds of acres of wind turbines another small area. It is impossible to satisfy even a decent chunk of energy demand with such sources, without littering the entire landscape with such things.
Every building would need to be covered in solar cells, open space covered in dangerous wind turbines, free flowing rivers damned up, etc While still costing a lot more to maintain, and so making the generated electricity more expensive.
Which of course is why carbon credits and fees and fines can make it happen, making what would currently be seen as unreasonably high energy prices standard through constant regulatory price increases in cheap energy sources, bringing the cost of production of inexpensive energy sources up towards the cost of production from cleaner sources. Forcing people to spend the same amount of money anyways, so the clean option doesn't seem so bad anymore. The intent is so the only choice is artificially expensive energy from dirty sources, or actually expensive energy from expensive clean sources.


This artificial government created market, that many in Wall Street love (it is a new high value mandated commodity created out of thin air to manipulate in the market and extract real wealth from society with), results in a product called a 'carbon credit'.
Various businesses can be given or 'earn' carbon credits for stupid things, many of which do nothing to help the environment.
They can then sell these carbon credits to make a profit.
There is even businesses created on a business model to intentionally maximize how many carbon credits they will be issued even though they won't actually need them, so they can then sell these to others allowing them to pollute more.


This would be an example of one of those stupid carbon credits, essentially being given money for reducing pollution by flying around in a high fuel consumption turbine powered helicopter shooting camels while creating more pollution than those camels ever would. The carbon credits earned doing that high pollution creating activity can then be sold to a business, allowing that business to pollute more than it otherwise legally could.
 
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Okay, let's drift, but leave out the politics. Sub-title: "Strip mining messes up my deer hunting".

In order to have solar and wind units, ya gotta have the materials. Okay, a bunch of aluminum, copper, concrete and steel. That means strip mines and large energy inputs.

Making alumina from bauxite leaves el gigantico spoil mounds. Same after making aluminum from alumina.

Concrete? Strip mine the limestone, input beaucoup energy and you have cement. And a bunch of dust, downwind from the cement plant.

Steel? China uses one-half the world supply, buying ore from Australia. The ore comes from strip mines. They also buy coking coal, used in the processing of the ore.

Copper? More strip mines.

Basically the deal is that we transfer environmental damage out of the US and into foreign sources--along with US $$$ to buy all these ores. But so long as we're pure, it's okay to grunge up other countries.

Not supposed to drill for oil and gas on public lands because building roads to the well sites would hurt the environment. But building a service road to each and every wind unit would not hurt the environment. Your task: Explain this dichotomy.

Anybody with specific knowledge of solar panel chemistry, chime in.

Time for a :barf: break.
 
Are they edible, and what legal single-shot rifle would the Aussie use to kill the pests?
 
Are they edible, and what legal single-shot rifle would the Aussie use to kill the pests?

Yes camels are very edible and why would it have to be a single shot rifle? Australians are allowed all types of rifle except semi autos.
 
I read this story in the news and it set me wondering. Is this a case of using the fashionable cause du jour, global greenhouse panic, as a pretext for a hunt? The camel problem has been ongoing for a long time, and here is a politically acceptable way to get it sorted out at last, and maybe get the hunts financed. That is the way I read it, but I may be reading it wrong.

If that is what is going on, though, it is clever political jiu jitsu. If all things to do with commerce and energy and agriculture and life in general are being brought under regulations under the rubric of greenhouse gassing, well, say then, what about the camels, eh mate?

If whipped up global warming concern functions as a power grab to tax and regulate everything under the sun, and that certainly appears to be its purpose, why not see if you can get a piece of that action, and solve your camel problem? It might be cynical, but it might also work.

I am claiming my remarks are on topic because anything to do with financing the expedition is obviously on topic in a hunting discussion. :)

I wonder what tactics and tools would be most effective in hunting camels. They are strong, tough animals, reputedly, but I would think anything in the .303 class and up would do. Hunting tactics are a question in my mind for I am not familiar with the species' behavior. Everything that lives needs water, though, even camels, so I suppose that might be a place to start.

Here is a recipe for preparing a whole camel, stuffed, sort of a Turducken scheme: http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/camel.asp Hope this helps. ;)
 
I have no problem with shooting camels, from the standpoint of habitat protection. But to use camel farts as a justification for having cars and electricity strikes me as hypocrisy of a rather high order. What's next? Elephants? Bean eaters?

Mind-boggling.

Bean eaters? Don't forget vegans and beer drinkers. Beans and beer would take out a lot of the hunting crowd as part of MAD.

Doing a little math, assuming the estimates are right that camels produce about 1 ton of carbon dioxide per year (hence the one credit) and going with our gasoline vehicles are getting on average 19.4 miles to the gallon (at least for those of us driving our big pickup trucks for hunting), then we are producing about 1 lb of carbon dioxide per mile, and a ton every 2000 miles, which is approximately one camel's methane's worth. I put about 8 camel's worth on my truck each year, plus another 2-3 camels' worth from my little sedan that is much more fuel efficient.
http://www.slate.com/id/2152685/

They also eat fermented meat preserved in rancid fat. Not really the folks my Western stomach want's recommending cuisine.

We aren't so different, though we think our palettes so refined. A great treat outside of the Chicago Stock Yards from the late 19th and into the early 20th century was Brain Sandwiches made from fried cow brains and onions on a roll or bread. How about pickled pigs feet? If you think about it, cheese is actually pretty disgusting as are the things that go into hamburger or hotdogs. We actually have a lot of pretty disgusting foods when you think about how they are made, but they are acceptable to us.

We could eat camels. We could make them into chicken food or pet food. Protecting the environment is nice, but to use them as food means a significant addition of labor that maybe isn't wanted or needed by those just wanting the camels gone and getting them to market from rural areas means time and expense that may not be warranted either.

BTW, all these meats, alcohol, and cheeses also have a fairly large carbon footprint alone.

As carbon life forms, we do live in a carbon-based system. Ah, the irony.
 
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Just my guess, but I imagine the guys behind this deal are like some of the phony gold mine deals in Nevada: They're not mining for gold, they're mining for investors.

Same with this camel thing: Hustle investors. "Selling Green" is the In Thing, nowadays.

No different from the car racing sanctioning bodies and the gasahol shuck. Great for ADM, lousy for poor folks' food supplies.

Somebody's gonna figure out some sort of Greenscam for US hunting, sooner or later.
 
When they arrive to the northern states and canada we will start shooting them and eating them fart or no fart.
Also they should use a bow and arrow only because everytime the firearm fires it is another big fart too.
Bow and knife only... Go green! lol!
 
There is real and dangerous pollution to be concerned about. That is one of the more annoying aspects of the ridiculous 'greenhouse gas', 'carbon footprint', 'global warming', campaigns and associated measures.
Things like mercury output from industry, which gets into the environment, working its way into the food chain in the animals like the fish. Pregnant women cannot even eat too much fish or birth defects are likely from the mercury concentrations.
While those who are not pregnant simply suffer neurological degradation.
If you look at the limits of fish based on mercury content, and what a serving size is considered (a fraction of the fish) it is quite easy to exceed mercury limits. And some parts of the world have lower limits than what is set in the USA.
(For examples of mercury sources coal burning can release significant mercury into the environment, I could care less about the C02, and typical carbon footprint measurements. I would much rather them focus on cutting out such things from the smoke than reducing C02 emissions.)

There is plenty of real toxic pollution that can ruin the environment and can be especially harmful to hunters and fishermen and the families they feed their game and fish to.
The constant global warming cries unfortunately turn people off to pollution concerns in general.
So the serious and dangerous types of pollution get less attention than they deserve, while we get to hear about greenhouse gases from cows and camels, and C02 emissions from vehicles and industry.
Of course part of it is politics and power, everyone puts out C02 and regulations give a powerful way to control people for things they must do. While not everyone is adding toxic chemicals to the environment.
 
Just my guess, but I imagine the guys behind this deal are like some of the phony gold mine deals in Nevada: They're not mining for gold, they're mining for investors.

[...]

That aspect had not occurred to me. I had thought it was ag interests and hunters scamming the green scammers. But it could be scammers scamming the scammers. Any Aussies want to weigh in on the matter? It's your camels, your continent. Your politics, too.

Ferals overrunning an ecosystem is half politics anywhere, I suppose. Do you think we could package hunts and sell them abroad, "Hunt romantic wild boar in the charming American South..." ? :confused:

Oink.
 
We have the same problem with wild horses and feral hogs here in the US as the Aussies have with their camels and rabbits. But horses are seen as being prettier than camels.

Habitat ruination is habitat ruination, regardless of species--and that impacts all of us who are hunters.
 
"Somebody's gonna figure out some sort of Greenscam for US hunting, sooner or later."

They have, it's called heavishot and bismuth...required for all waterfowl hunting at like 16 dollars per half box compared to 4 dollar per box bulk shotgun shells.

I can see using it puddle ducks on shallow water...but do you think that a diver on the bay is going to forage that once shot lead 50 feet on the bottom? It's a scam...
 
Leaky Waders, while there may have been flaws in the studies done to justify ending the use of lead in shot, I really doubt that the wildlife biologists gave even a first thought to the financial ramifications.

I use "greenscam" to mean promoting some new deal in hunting which intends to get investors' money, and not really accomplish anything worthwhile.

As far as this thread? I doubt there's much more worthwhile to bat around in conversation that's pertinent...

:)
 
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