Can 38 Spec +P brass be used for 357 loads?

[pigeon48]

I have been loading 357 Mag loads for a while and seem to constantly run out of brass for it...but I have plenty of 38 Special brass. I noticed that some 357 loads have lots of room left for the bullet, so I dumped the load in a 38 Special casing...and had plenty of room left for the bullet also....125 gr JHP...since I fire a Ruger Blackhawk 357 SS only for these rounds, would this be a dangerous load pressurewise for the gun?
I have split open and measured the thickness of the brass of all three casings and found that the +P casing appears as sturdy as the 357 casing....but will the +P casing safely accept the pressure of the 357 load?

 

[LiveLife]

I believe the cases are constructed the same, just different lengths so the longer and hotter 357 rounds could not be used in weaker 38 frames.

Never tried it, but should be doable as long as you ensure that you are not compressing the powder charge with the bullet. Are you planning to crimp to 38 or 357 OAL? Just remember, 38 case/OAL with 357 powder charge accidentally fired in 38 revolver is bad news!

Curious to hear the comments on this one.

Here's a thread I found googling for 357 load in 38 - http://www.thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=377658

 

[pigeon48]

357 load in 38+P casing

I read the thread you listed and seems I'm not the only one that has this question...but I did do a cutaway of a 357 case and compared it to a 38+P case and took some measurements...I think the 38+P case will handle the pressure okay.
When I get my chronograph back from being repaired after shooting one of the wires, I may load some rounds for testing and see where the velocity is.
I'm using 10.5 grains of Power Pistol behind a 125 gr JHP bullet and seating the bullet to 1.435 ( 38 dimensions ) with a taper crimp.
At least this is what I'm planning unless there is some negative information that appears.

 

[LiveLife]

I guess if you start low on the powder charge and incrementally increase, should be fine.

If you are crimping these rounds at 38 OAL and own 38 Spl revolvers, might I suggest you mark these rounds (maybe color the case base) with a permanent marker so you can readily identify them as hot 357 loads?

 

[BwBrown]

I think the case strengths are all pretty much the same.

The 38 special cases, being shorter, loaded with a 357 mag powder charge will yield higher pressure due to the reduced load density.
You should (read: I would) start with a lower (15-20%) charge and work up being REAL VIGILANT of signs of pressure.

Me, I'd keep special cases and magnum cases separate with their correct loads for the sake of safety. With my luck, I would end up with a "topless" revolver.
Bob

 

[ArchAngelCD]

.38 Special and .38 Special +P brass from the same company is exactly the same except for the +P markings. The brass will easily handle the additional pressure. The problem is it's a very bad idea to load brass marked .38 Special +P with a .357 Magnum load! Even though you are very careful accidents do and will happen. Eventually that ammo will find it's way into the .38 Special revolver, if not by you, by someone else. You would never put W296 in a W231 can so why would you think to load a .357 Magnum round in a .38 Special case? It's just not safe, but some more .357 Magnum brass and sleep well at night...

Welcome to the forum...

 

[jbrown13]

Personally I wouldn't even try it. 38 Spcl +P has a SAAMI max pressure of 18, 500 PSI, whereas 357 magnum has a SAAMI max pressure of 35,000 PSI. Add to that the shorter case, which reduces case volume and increases pressure, sounds a recipe for problems. There also may be something different in the metallurgy of the two cases, but I don't know. Just MHO.

 

[Glock20]

I agree with those that discourage it. Don't take chances in reloading, it's just not worth it.

 

[badbart]

Buy more 357 brass. I was thinking of doing the same but it would be crazy to load 38 brass to 357 pressures when you can buy used brass for not much money.

 

[pigeon48]

357 load in a 38+P casing

Okay, maybe its not a brilliant idea to load that round so I reckon I'll follow normal procedures...I just had all this 38 brass and short on 357, but now have located a source for the 357 brass.
Shooting 38 rounds in my Blackhawk seemed similiar to shooting a 22LR, but is really good for plinking and target practice.
As a post script...I don't own a 38 caliber revolver and won't allow anyone to shoot my reloads, so there would be no issues of anyone shooting one of these illegitamate rounds in an improper pistol.
Thanks to all you guys for your input....I've learned a lot on this forum although I've only been on it for a few weeks...hope to learn more.

 

[W.E.G.]

You could get by with it a thousand times.

...but it only take ONE mistake.

How much do you trust yourself?

How much do you trust your friends at the range, and who may have access to your ammo?

There are countless threads on this site where somebody wants to "hot-load" a particular caliber.
Would we be doing you any favors by telling you to "Go for it!"???

 

[mbopp]

Most of my 357 cases are loaded to 38 SPL pressure. I lose most of my cases to splits in the case mouth. When that happens I trim them back to 38 SPL length and keep shooting them but I don't load them to 357 pressure.
When I weigh the shortened cases they are heavier than 38 SPL cases from the same manufacturer, this tells me the 357 brass is thicker than 38SPL. So it follows there is less internal volume in my short 357 cases than 38 SPL.
Now I could load short magnum loads or +P+ loads, but if by some chance they ended up in somebody's 38 SPL........
Nope, my short 357 cases are never loaded to anything over a 38 SPL load.

 

[Guillermo]

I too would advise against it.

And if you decide to do it, which I advise against, you have to fine a way to mark them with etching or paint. Even so, I would advise against it...strongly.

 

[SSN Vet]

I wouldn't do it...

I would especially be concerned about keeping them out of somebody elses 38 spcl.

i.e. you get hit by a bus tomorrow and all your kit winds up in a garage sale, or you have a round fall off the table into the grass at the range and somebody else picks it up after you're gone.

 

[somerled]

No.

There have been some who have loaded cast SWCs long in .38 Special cases and then used the front of a driving band for crimping. That would require either not using as much lube, running the risk of lube falling out of the top groove or the lube picking up contamination.

Shooting .38 Special ammo in a .357 chamber is perfectly acceptable if one takes some extra care cleaning the cylinder before switching back to .357.

 

[Cosmoline]

I would strongly advise against it. I've been handloading for years, and I've lost track of a lot of strays in that time. They show up years later, sometimes after I've forgotten what they were. Of course if I know they're strays I don't ever shoot them. But there is that chance that some .357 in .38 Special clothing will slip through, get mixed in and years later be shot by you or someone who comes after you.

CARTRIDGES LAST FOR CENTURIES

On the other hand, why not just load up some of that .38 Special with .38 special loads or a trailboss charge. Or sell it. Or trade it for .357 brass.

 

[Maj Dad]

I have loaded 38 brass with 357 loads, but I seated the bullet to 357 OAL. Skeeter Skelton wrote about it in the 70's - 357 brass being scarce, he reasoned that loading to 357 length would give the same case volume & pressure. Of course, the bullet is seated shallow and lead bullets with exposed lube grooves could lose some of the lubricant value. I have one on my reloading bench right now that I loaded up a while back just for the halibut... All things considered, if 357 brass is available, use it. I wouldn't do it unless there was no other choice. Hot 38 loads should get you by...

 

[CSA 357]

i wouldnt do it, why not just buy some 357 brass? as stated it can be done but i would use only new brass if your gona buy new brass might as well be 357

 

[Carl N. Brown]

My wife and I have between us .357 and two .38s. I only load .357 loads in .357 casings to avoid any unpleasant events, getting a .38 loaded to .357 level in a .38 (both .38s are rated by the factories as +P but why chance it).

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Cosmoline: "But there is that chance that some .357 in .38 Special clothing will slip through, get mixed in and years later be shot by you or someone who comes after you."

My sister was going through our late stepdad's stuff and found some .38 loads and asked me if I wanted them. For obvious reasons I will only fire them in a .357 if I decide to fire them. There also may be some .38-44 ammo out there (a .357 load in a .38 Spl case for use in a revolver built on a .44 revolver frame, heavy cylinder, heavy barrel.)

 

[J.R.W.]

This debate really interests me. I've ordered some BB Heavy 38Spl+P 158gr LSWC-HP to use in my Ruger SP101. Looking at the Buffalo Bore site, they chrono'd this load at ~1140fps from a 3" SP. Looking at commercially available data from every source, there seems to be no way to replicate this load without stepping up to 357 Mag. charge weights. I'm sure the Ruger can handle it being the freight train that it is, but I'd really like to know how they're achieving the extreme velocity and energy without touching the Magnum charges. If I do decide to try it, I have a few hundred rounds of brand new Winchester brass that might get used for it once and then relegated to standard use. Here's a link for those who may be interested.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I just had all this 38 brass and short on 357, but now have located a source for the 357 brass.

Take a look in the classified section of this forum. Often there is 1X fired .357 Magnum brass for sale. You could also make a posting to trade off some .38 Special brass for .357 Magnum brass. I'm betting if you offer 2 to 1 you will make a deal quickly.

I know buying new is a little more expensive and most online stores are backordered right now but there are some sources still available. My buddy Jessie from Tennessee Valley Bullets has new Starline .357 Magnum brass priced $19.99/100.

 

[Steve C]

I'm using 10.5 grains of Power Pistol behind a 125 gr JHP bullet and seating the bullet to 1.435 ( 38 dimensions ) with a taper crimp.
At least this is what I'm planning unless there is some negative information that appears.

For all the reasons given its a bad idea to load .357 mag pressure ammo in .38 spl cases regardless of the ability of the brass to hold together.

You also need to be chastised in using a 10.5gr load which is MAXIMUM in both Speer #13 and Alliants on line manual for a 125gr Speer bullet and ASSUMING that you can change components without doing work up 1st. That's poor procedure and someday will likely get you into real trouble. ANY TIME YOU CHANGE ANY COMPONENT YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO A START LOAD OF 10% under maximum which would be 9.4grs of PP with a 125gr bullet. BTW Alliants 2002 manual listed 9.2grs w/ 125gr JSP as max at 33,00 psi (SAAMI max for the .357 mag is 35,000 psi not to be confused with the older higher number using CUP).

 

[Walkalong]

While .38 brass is easier to come by and cheaper, it is still a bad idea, IMHO, to load .38 brass to .357 levels. As posted, the risk of it finding its way into .38's is the problem.

 

[CraigC]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

You can't use .357 data in .38Spl brass but you can load .38-44 equivalent loads that approach .357 levels in .38Spl brass. The classic is a 173gr Keith bullet over 13.5gr 2400 for 1350fps. This load is too long for most .38Spl's, which precludes most the fears exhibited in this thread. You can also substitute a 158gr SWC but these will fit in most .38's. Case life is excellent with good brass and this load can be used in strong .38's (like .38-44 Heavy Duties and Colt SAA's) or any .357Mag sixgun. It is actually necessary to use .38Spl brass with the 173gr Keith bullet in 'some' .357's because of cylinder length. As far as these loads getting into other guns, mark your loads, be careful and prudent with them and don't worry about the sky falling.