Can "civility" coexist with....STUPIDITY??
- Thread starter Topgun
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
To answer the topic question, yes, civiliity can exist with stupidity. They are not mutually exclusive categories. I find it amusing that you are overly concerned with the gun-weapon politically correct distinction but fail to recognize that your contrasted categories of civility and stupidity are not mutually exclusive.
So Topgun, calling a gun a weapon is what you would consider as stupidity? Is that right?
I also find it amusing that you think that calling a gun a weapon is stupid. Given that stupidity refers to being unintelligent or slow of mind, that says a lot about what you are saying about the people who use the term. The amusing part is that you have assumed them to be stupid without consideration for being ignorant. A person can be extremely intelligent, but ignorant of a given topic. You might catch more flies using honey instead of vinegar. More than likely, folks calling guns weapons are not stupid as you imply, but ignorant to your reasoning and justification or to the distinctions of refering to the gun or weapon as would be appropriate given the context of speech.
Are these failings of term useage by you stupidity? No, but they do show ignorance. Ignorance is not the same as stupidity, but some stupid people are also ignorant as well.
As near as I can tell, you are just engaging in one of those silly politically correct conformations. You are not engaged in strategy nearly as much as you think, but nomenclature.
In getting to the idea of context of use, only rarely do I shoot just a "gun." I shoot a weapon as what I am doing is self defense training/practice. In that context, it is being used as a weapon and that is what it is.
Go shoot your guns all you want. I will train with my weapons.
So Topgun, calling a gun a weapon is what you would consider as stupidity? Is that right?
I also find it amusing that you think that calling a gun a weapon is stupid. Given that stupidity refers to being unintelligent or slow of mind, that says a lot about what you are saying about the people who use the term. The amusing part is that you have assumed them to be stupid without consideration for being ignorant. A person can be extremely intelligent, but ignorant of a given topic. You might catch more flies using honey instead of vinegar. More than likely, folks calling guns weapons are not stupid as you imply, but ignorant to your reasoning and justification or to the distinctions of refering to the gun or weapon as would be appropriate given the context of speech.
Are these failings of term useage by you stupidity? No, but they do show ignorance. Ignorance is not the same as stupidity, but some stupid people are also ignorant as well.
As near as I can tell, you are just engaging in one of those silly politically correct conformations. You are not engaged in strategy nearly as much as you think, but nomenclature.
In getting to the idea of context of use, only rarely do I shoot just a "gun." I shoot a weapon as what I am doing is self defense training/practice. In that context, it is being used as a weapon and that is what it is.
Go shoot your guns all you want. I will train with my weapons.
fallingblock
Member
For what it's worth, folks.....
Australian shooting organizations have been sending out pamphlets to gun owners for several years now begging, pleading and then demanding that firearms NEVER be referred to as "weapons".
Has anyone been keeping up with what is happening regarding 'gun control' in Australia?
The 'antis' want to ban ALL ownership of firearms by individuals.
They want to ban GUNS.
Semantics are not the issue here....
Australian shooting organizations have been sending out pamphlets to gun owners for several years now begging, pleading and then demanding that firearms NEVER be referred to as "weapons".
Has anyone been keeping up with what is happening regarding 'gun control' in Australia?
The 'antis' want to ban ALL ownership of firearms by individuals.
They want to ban GUNS.
Semantics are not the issue here....
Ryder
Member
I use my guns to put holes in things. 
If I went around talking about "weapons" it would scare my friends and family. They already know I am a gun lover. I do not want to be considered as a potential danger to them. Confidence is earned and it's a hard enough thing to gain when you're larger than them to begin with.
Many who refer to guns as weapons believe that guns are only good for killing people (cops). That's something I have not done and can't agree with even though I would use a gun to put holes in somebody if it was needed.
If I went around talking about "weapons" it would scare my friends and family. They already know I am a gun lover. I do not want to be considered as a potential danger to them. Confidence is earned and it's a hard enough thing to gain when you're larger than them to begin with.
Many who refer to guns as weapons believe that guns are only good for killing people (cops). That's something I have not done and can't agree with even though I would use a gun to put holes in somebody if it was needed.
Mikul
Member
That's it. From now on I'm going to refer to guns as "poofers" because they go poof when I pull the trigger. That surely will keep people from implementing silly gun laws. Who knows, it may even bring about world peace.
BTW, please do not confuse my use of the word "refer" with my condoning the use of drugs or other controlled substances because it looks like the word "reefer."
BTW, please do not confuse my use of the word "refer" with my condoning the use of drugs or other controlled substances because it looks like the word "reefer."
DRZinn
Member
OK, henceforth I will refer to my 1911 as "my tool" as in, "I've got to clean my tool." or "The trigger on my tool needs some work."
DRZinn
Member
My tool would make soccer moms VERY uncomfortable with its hair trigger....
We have to set the terms of the debate...
It's time people in our society were brought back to reality. Firearms, knives, brickbats, broken bottles or any other tool you use to fight with are all weapons.
IMHO we are doing ourselves a disservice by allowing the antis to set the terms of the debate. Firearms are weapons...period. They are the tools that good men use to defend themselves and others and they are tools that bad men use to do evil upon others. Evil does exist in the world and we gain nothing by pretending that it doesn't.
I think that we are doing nothing but reinforcing the notion that only society at large may have weapons (through the police and military) by speaking of firearms as guns, or other non-threatening terms when referring to those weapins held in private hands. We need to get the average person comfortable with the idea that free men bear arms.
Jeff
It's time people in our society were brought back to reality. Firearms, knives, brickbats, broken bottles or any other tool you use to fight with are all weapons.
IMHO we are doing ourselves a disservice by allowing the antis to set the terms of the debate. Firearms are weapons...period. They are the tools that good men use to defend themselves and others and they are tools that bad men use to do evil upon others. Evil does exist in the world and we gain nothing by pretending that it doesn't.
I think that we are doing nothing but reinforcing the notion that only society at large may have weapons (through the police and military) by speaking of firearms as guns, or other non-threatening terms when referring to those weapins held in private hands. We need to get the average person comfortable with the idea that free men bear arms.
Jeff
fallingblock
Member
Concisely delivered, and absolutely essential, Jeff...
to the success of our preserving RKBA:
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"We need to get the average person comfortable with the idea that free men bear arms."
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to the success of our preserving RKBA:
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"We need to get the average person comfortable with the idea that free men bear arms."
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Tamara
Senior Member
Topgun,
The right to keep and bear what? Speak up with that last bit; can't hear you. The right to keep and bear tools? The right to keep and bear toys?
Let's see what ol' Roget has to say about "ARMS", shall we?
Sounds to me like you have the right to keep and bear weapons, although the Constitution also guarantees your right to own toys and fowling pieces in the Ninth Amendment.
(It's okay to be honest; you could call 'em "Snugglepuffs", and Feinstein would still want to ban them. )
The right to keep and bear what? Speak up with that last bit; can't hear you. The right to keep and bear tools? The right to keep and bear toys?
Let's see what ol' Roget has to say about "ARMS", shall we?
Sounds to me like you have the right to keep and bear weapons, although the Constitution also guarantees your right to own toys and fowling pieces in the Ninth Amendment.
(It's okay to be honest; you could call 'em "Snugglepuffs", and Feinstein would still want to ban them.
)joe sixpack
Member
Some good points to reflect on.
Guess I'll stop referring to my gun as "the gawdforsaken man killing machine o'death" now.
cheers, ab
Guess I'll stop referring to my gun as "the gawdforsaken man killing machine o'death" now.
cheers, ab
Treylis
Member
Arrrgh, don't use that argument! We damned well have a right to keep and bear sporting goods, as well as any other item so long as the possession of it doesn't harm anyone else but potentially yourself or other consenting adults.
Life, liberty, and property, remember? ;-)
Topgun
member
Well, at least Double Naught Spy knows the difference between "stupidity" and "ignorance."
And he is correct in his application.
As far as calling firearms "weapons" it is a very ignorant tactic. (If we define "ignorance" as being unaware that even ...instructors in the art of shooting are being taught that it is counterproductive.
But I can't change anyone any more than I can prevent the loss of gun rights by the ignorant "antis" because they are fortunate in having even MORE ignorance espoused by their opposition.
By jingies, call em WEAPONS all you like. Dianne will love you just a bit more tonight.
And he is correct in his application.
As far as calling firearms "weapons" it is a very ignorant tactic. (If we define "ignorance" as being unaware that even ...instructors in the art of shooting are being taught that it is counterproductive.
But I can't change anyone any more than I can prevent the loss of gun rights by the ignorant "antis" because they are fortunate in having even MORE ignorance espoused by their opposition.
By jingies, call em WEAPONS all you like. Dianne will love you just a bit more tonight.
fallingblock
Member
Not nearly so 'ignorant',Topgun.....
"As far as calling firearms "weapons" it is a very ignorant tactic. (If we define "ignorance" as being unaware that even ...instructors in the art of shooting are being taught that it is counterproductive.
But I can't change anyone any more than I can prevent the loss of gun rights by the ignorant "antis" because they are fortunate in having even MORE ignorance espoused by their opposition."
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As falling into the P.C. trap set for you by those who would disarm you.
"As far as calling firearms "weapons" it is a very ignorant tactic. (If we define "ignorance" as being unaware that even ...instructors in the art of shooting are being taught that it is counterproductive.
But I can't change anyone any more than I can prevent the loss of gun rights by the ignorant "antis" because they are fortunate in having even MORE ignorance espoused by their opposition."
************************************************************
As falling into the P.C. trap set for you by those who would disarm you.
Thumper
Member
Topgun, I know that it's your opinion that somehow being more PC will be helpfull to us.
It's important to remember that obfuscating what the 2nd amendment is all about is the reason that we have the phrase "sporting purposes" in so many of our unconstitutional laws.
In the short term, obfuscating the term "weapon" might seem like a good idea, but in the long term, you lose the ability to argue your rights on Constitutional grounds.
The Second doesn't protect your right to hunt piggies or paper. It protects your right to hunt people.
Trying to hide that hard fact only hurts us, as evidenced by the AWB (Again, "legitimate sporting purposes").
It's important to remember that obfuscating what the 2nd amendment is all about is the reason that we have the phrase "sporting purposes" in so many of our unconstitutional laws.
In the short term, obfuscating the term "weapon" might seem like a good idea, but in the long term, you lose the ability to argue your rights on Constitutional grounds.
The Second doesn't protect your right to hunt piggies or paper. It protects your right to hunt people.
Trying to hide that hard fact only hurts us, as evidenced by the AWB (Again, "legitimate sporting purposes").
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