can i carry into a national park or not?

[NavyLCDR]

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ24/html/PLAW-111publ24.htm

(b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the
National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.--The
Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation
that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an
assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System
or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--
(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from
possessing the firearm; and
(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the
law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System
or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

RETG,

What part of "shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation" is difficult for you to understand? I would hate to hear how you define "shall be infringed" in the second amendment!

Personally, I think the language in the Coburn amendment left something out, though. I think they need to add the bolded part below to the already existing text:

(7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to
ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges, nor RETG, cannot again
override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on
83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000
acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish
and Wildlife Service.
(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second
amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park
System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be
infringed.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Rattlesnakes are not listed as endangered by the US DoI nor by the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission as far as I can determine, nor are they game animals, nor are they migratory birds. Therefor, it appears that they may be shot if they "pose reasonable threat or endangerment to persons or property."

Arkansas law is permissory, not exclusionary. In other words, if the law doesn't say you can kill it, you can't kill it.

The exception for threats to person or property allow you to kill roaming packs of dogs preying on livestock and other destructive critters, as well as defending yourself. But in the time it takes you to draw your gun to shoot a rattlesnake, you could have simply stepped out of his striking range.

Now it might be hard to find a jury that would convict you for killing a rattlesnake, but they could charge you.

 

[wishin]

But in the time it takes you to draw your gun to shoot a rattlesnake, you could have simply stepped out of his striking range.

Maybe not. Average Rattle snake = 5ft. Average step = 20 inches. Striking distance 2/3 of 60 inches = 40 inches. Woops.......

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The average step is 30 inches, not 20. (A pace, two steps is 60 inches, and the Romans counted paces as they marched, a "mille" or thousand paces became the basis and root word of "mile.")

But you aren't standing with your leg against the rattler's nose, and you can take a much bigger step than 30 inches when motivated.

 

[RS14]

Maybe not. Average Rattle snake = 5ft. Average step = 20 inches. Striking distance 2/3 of 60 inches = 40 inches. Woops.......

In addition to what Vern said, we're not concerned with taking a single step and then standing there--we're considering how far you can move in the time it would take you to draw and shoot the rattler. I assert you can generally move farther than 40 inches in that time.

If you're unsure, find a range that lets you draw and fire from your holster, and take a couple friends. Place the shooter on the line with his weapon holstered, and have the other stand with his back to the shooter. Shake a maraca--your friends should draw, aim, and shoot; and run, respectively. See how far your running friend can get before you hears the gunshot.

What I've just described is essentially a form of the Tueller Drill. Usually the runner can cover about 21 feet. Now, I'm sure deep sand, mud, etc will slow this substantially--you could come upon the rattler when you get your foot stuck in some fallen logs, for instance. In such cases, by all means, shoot the rattler, if you can't escape quickly. But in the majority of cases, I expect retreating to be the safer option.

Arkansas law is permissory, not exclusionary. In other words, if the law doesn't say you can kill it, you can't kill it.

The exception for threats to person or property allow you to kill roaming packs of dogs preying on livestock and other destructive critters, as well as defending yourself. But in the time it takes you to draw your gun to shoot a rattlesnake, you could have simply stepped out of his striking range.

Now it might be hard to find a jury that would convict you for killing a rattlesnake, but they could charge you.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying you could never shoot a rattlesnake in AR, not even if it was an immediate threat. That would of course be absurd.

I personally don't see the need to shoot rattlers in general. The reasons for this are beyond the scope of this thread. However, the Park Service will generally see things the same way. Thus, don't shoot rattlers in national parks.

A more useful question: in the event that you are forced to use your firearm to defend yourself against the wildlife, how will the NPS respond? Suppose your leg was trapped, and you were unable to move out of striking range of the rattler, or suppose you shoot a charging bear.

 

[Leanwolf]

This stuff being discussed here is all gonna be moot.

It won't be long before the usual pea brained irresponsible gun owning yahoos hit the various National Parks carrying their hoglegs and then start plinking and target and beer can shooting out in the woods, slinging lead all over the place and leaving their usual garbage and trash to litter the pristine woods, mountains, deserts, etc.

At that point, the politicians in D.C. will say, "Ah ha! You see? We allowed the worker peasant rabble the privilege of carrying concealed weapons for the very strict purpose of self defense in our sacred National Parks, and look at what they did. Endangered Park visitors, shot holes in everything, and littered the landscape with their trailer park trash."

New law: "No Weapons in National Parks."

There are always a few who spoil it for everyone. Watch and see, boys and girls.

L.W.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Here in Arkansas we have always had weapons in the Buffalo National River, which is a national park. We even have hunting in the BNR boundaries. And we have no problems with people messing up the area shooting, or behaving dangerously.

If someone did behave that way, the appropriate thing is to arrest or ticket the ones who misbehave.

 

[Sam1911]

This stuff being discussed here is all gonna be moot.

It won't be long before the usual pea brained irresponsible gun owning yahoos hit the various National Parks ...

New law: "No Weapons in National Parks."

There are always a few who spoil it for everyone. Watch and see, boys and girls.

Yeah. He's probably right. It's all going to fail. We'd better call our congressmen and tell them "never mind, we can't be trused, we don't deserve rights."

Somebody draft a letter of retreat and post it up in 'Activism' so we can all start writing and calling the folks in charge to beg them not to give us the chance to muck this up!



-Sam

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think somebody attended a self-defense course where he was taught to "visualize failure."

 

[Leanwolf]

Vern Humphrey and Sam 1911, it's of no concern to me what you think of me or my post, re irresponsible gun toters in our National Parks. There will be some lame brains abusing our Right to carry, no matter what you want to believe. (I'm surprised neither of you has ever encountered irresponsible gun owners. I certainly have.)

It won't take many examples of a few nitwits' abuse for our illustrious anti-guns politicians to then cry out for the "old policy" re National Parks. And when some numbskull caps a Grizzly or Black bear on the side of the road in Yellowstone or Glacier N.P. -- "He was gonna eat me an' my little girl!!!" -- every left wing whacked out animal rights group and preservation group in the U.S., will scream constantly and loudly in the media demanding "Close the National Park loophole!" There are plenty of politicians and Federal bureaucrats who will be more than happy to accommodate them.

If you don't believe that, you are very politically naive.

Sam 1911, it isn't a matter of caving in, as you misstated my post. It's a matter of knowing how some pea brains act, no matter what the law is, and being prepared to fight for our Right, when a few make it tough on the many. How wonderful it would be if everyone who owns/carries a firearm, were responsible. Unfortunately, there are always the exceptions.

Vern Humphrey, perhaps you are correct.

V.H. - " I think somebody attended a self-defense course where he was taught to "visualize failure."

I did attend a civilian self defense course once, in 1981. Gunsite. And during the six days I was there, Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith constantly taught our small class, "Visualize Failure." And during the nearly 15 years I was with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Dept., going through all the Academy and advanced training, firearms, self defense, weapons retention, and multiple officer survival courses, all they ever taught was "Visualize Failure."

It's a wonder I'm still alive.

L.W.

 

[Sam1911]

L.W. Maybe you just have a different way of expressing things, and maybe it is a matter of whether you prefer to "visualize success," or "visualize failure" in your attempt to achieve your goals.

I'm certainly painfully aware that there are more than enough ignorant vandals and dumba$$es out there to put us in a bad light by their actions. But I'd never have responded to those worrisome possibilities by coming here and decrying that all our efforts and our joy will die and we'll lose our gains.

This stuff being discussed here is all gonna be moot.

Moot means irrelevant -- nothing we can do about it. Abandon ship! Every man for himself. All hope is lost. Yadda, yadda. We're no where near that point.

Yes, some folks will shoot a bear -- hopefully in a justified self-defense shooting which enables them to live through the attack! Yes, some folks will litter. For my part, I'll continue to take out more trash than I brought in. And I'll educate those around me to do the same.

You're probably right that we're in for a fight. But you've got a horrific way of saying so!

-Sam