Can Someone Explain Why 1911s Are So Concealable?

[MCgunner]

I didn't know they were that concealable. Something about 40 ounces pulling my pant down all day I never liked. I don't much care for beaver tails stabbing me in the side, either. And, I've yet to find one that was truly a pocket auto outside of maybe a Colt Mustang in .380ACP.

But, to each his own.

 

[TomN]

I've tried to conceal a number of Glocks and Sigs, but nothing carries as well as my 1911.

 

[Adam5]

Personally I carry a small 9mm 1911 because of how thin it is. I carry an STI LS9. It's .765" across the slide and 1.01" across the grips.

 

[Kevin108]

1911s are very concealable because of their thinness but they are also very difficult to carry because of their weight. I carried the one I had in a CTAC at about 3:30 with an Aker polymer reinforced belt I got from Galls. Also I swapped on smooth grips because the original checkered design chewed on my love handle.

 

[Billy Shears]

1911s are very concealable because of their thinness but they are also very difficult to carry because of their weight.

I've never understood this complaint. Truly I haven't. For the past eight years I've been a cop, and my department actually requires its personnel to carry off duty at all times. These days I carry a .40 S&W FN Hi-Power with the SFS trigger, because my department refuses to authorize any single action auto, and FN technically considers the SFS a double action (even though it's not), so I got it approved. I'd carry a 1911 if they'd allow it, and I used to do just that when I had a concealed weapons permit before I joined the department.

Both of these guns are steel frame guns, and the weight is not the slightest bit of a bother at all. They're both flat and concealable, and carry very comfortably with the right holster and belt.

Seriously, how heavy is 3-4 pounds total of weapon and ammo? How can that possibly be fatiguing? If it's the weight of the pistol and ammo pulling down your pants, then you almost certainly don't have a proper belt and holster. With the right belt and holster, you'll get minimal sag.

 

[Ske1etor]

Seriously, how heavy is 3-4 pounds total of weapon and ammo? How can that possibly be fatiguing? If it's the weight of the pistol and ammo pulling down your pants, then you almost certainly don't have a proper belt and holster. With the right belt and holster, you'll get minimal sag.

Truthiness! Plus, carrying a firearm isn't supposed to be comfortable, its supposed to be comforting.

In actuality, most firearms fully loaded fall in around 3 pounds. The trigger on the firearm has a pull that is heavier than that!

 

[Green Lantern]

The first thing you need to purchase before attempting to carry any firearm is A GOOD BELT. No, not a belt from JCPenney's or walmart. Get a belt that was designed for carry. That normally eliminates 90% of the problems people have with carrying a heavy firearm. (Anything chambered in .4)
__________________

I can and do get away with using an "off the rack" belt for my Glock 19. However, should I ever move up to anything with more weight to it (like a 1911), I figure that a real gun belt would be a must...!

 

[Big Boomer]

As posted above a good gun belt makes a HUGE difference. I've carried a 1911, then the plastic block, now it's back to a 1911.

Also spare mags are WAY easier to conceal. I find that I don't "bump" into as many things with my 1911 either.

 

[Kind of Blued]

The issue with comfort and a heavy gun has to do with body type from what I can tell.

My Sig is pretty heavy, and I, am not. At 6'4", 165 lbs, I basically have skin that moves OUT in order to go around my hips. So three to four pounds inevitably hanging on the "hook" end of my pelvis at 2 O' clock is NOT comfortable. Especially if it is done for longer than say, a minute.

There is no way to get around it... Add 3-4 pounds to the right side of the belt, that side sags. Get a really good belt? I have one. It is stiff as hell. What does that do, it keeps the right side in place while making the left side RISE...

So then I have to draw, what keeps my pants from following the belt and the gun upward?

Eventually my junk meets where my pantlegs meet... So I'm basically performing the action of drawing a pistol with a 12" barrel.

So, until someone invents reverse suspenders, any suggestions?

 

[nwilliams]

I don't carry my Colt XSE because it doesn't conceal well on my body type. Concealabilty really depends on the person, some guns may conceal well for some and not for others. A decent holster and a double stack frame gun works fine for me. I find my Ruger SR9, Glock 27 and Browning HP to be my most comfortable carry guns.

Like body types the size and make of the 1911 will also add or detract from how well it conceals. My particular 1911 doesn't conceal well but there are many 1911's out there that I haven't tried concealing.

 

[guntotinguy]

Each to their own I reckon,I do prefer the 1911's,a Paraord Slimhawg is one of my carry's,an XD Tactical as another,and on a 'travel from town day' I usually take the S&W 1911 PD.Most of what works for me is the holsters,and belt riggings.

 

[Tribal]

So, until someone invents reverse suspenders, any suggestions?

Odd...I have a similar body type and I haven't had much trouble with that. Maybe it's your holster. For me the trick is to have the gun riding just on top of my right hip, with the grip almost in the "hollow" between my ribs and my hipbone. It also makes it pretty easy to conceal, and even with an untucked polo shirt nothing looks suspicious. I like the Fobus paddle holster I just got; it stays attached to the belt and the rubber on the inside gives it enough friction to stay in place when I draw. It's easy to draw, but even jumping up and down the gun stays secure.

If you've got $25 to risk, try it out (get the one specifically made for the 1911, not the one that can also accomodate the Kahr).

 

[Kind of Blued]

Tribal, I'll look into it. I have a promo code for anything on the Fobus website that I need to use. I think that the kydex (or whatever Fobus' are made of) might work better for me simply because there is hardly any friction between metal and hard plastic.

I'm using leather currently, so the inherent friction probably has something to do with it. It is also on its lowest level of retention (single screw to adjust), but still, my pants come up with my gun.

I'm planning on purchasing a Comp-Tac M-Tac IWB soon for the Sig, which will probably cure all of my problems from what I hear. Its a kydex holster "sheath" on a leather body for comfort.

I just can't figure out how to get everything to stay put while I pull the gun upward. If I had a gut hanging over my belt, that would certainly do wonders, but then I couldn't see my feet, not that I'd miss them much...

 

[BullfrogKen]

MDeViney said: Because they're single-stack and thin, right?

Pretty much, yeah.

Billy Shears said: It's really easy to explain why the 1911 is so concealable: it's very flat. The single column magazine is part of the reason, obviously, since it allows a slimmer grip. The other reason is the barrel bushing.

Well, almost. Its not the bushing that allows the slide to be made so thin, though. Its because it has internal locking lugs. So does that Hi-Power of yours. Both the Hi-Power and 1911 slides are thin. The Glocks, Sigs, and any other "blocky" slide pistol uses external locking lugs. The design of how the recoil system operates, and specifically the bearing surfaces necessary for external locking lugs, are what makes those "blocky" guns uncomfortable to carry IWB.

I carried a Sig 229 or a while. I transitioned over a government model, and since to a LW Commander. The 1911 and even the Hi-Power are much thinner and generally feel better than those other guns when you shove it down into your pants.

 

[BullfrogKen]

MDeViney said: I just can't figure out how to get everything to stay put while I pull the gun upward.

Its probably one of 2 reasons:

• The tension screw is too tight;
• Its got a rubber housing for the tension screw that is creating drag and friction on the trigger guard.

I can't see where you mention it, but I'm going to venture a guess and say you're currently using an Aker IWB holster for your 220 right now?

What make and width is that gun belt?

 

[1911 guy]

Concealability, weight and belts.

More opinions from me. Worth every dime you paid for it, too.

The 1911 is as concealable or more so than nearly any other handgun out there of a caliber and frame size to be useful. Sorry, no .32's or super short grips for me. I like to be able to hit what I shoot at and convince it that it's been shot.

Now on to weight and belts. The weight of a handgun is a measly couple pounds. My wifes' keychain weighs that much, with a fob from dang near every place she's been. The key is a good gunbelt **that fits you**. The best made belt in the world isn't worth squat if it it fits so loose everything moves like it's on bearings. Nor is a too small belt, for obvious reasons.

If everything wants to go north when you draw, take the belt in a notch. Also, wear your pants at your waist, not at the top of your hips. Hate to say it, but if you're under thirty, you've maybe never worn a pair of pants properly.

Went in to see my Dr. yesterday for minor outpatient surgery. He's CCW friendly, so I was packing when I went. Had to take my shirt off, heard a somewhat surprised "Holy *&$#" from the nurse. I Carry a 5" steel 1911, two reloads, two knives, flashlight, minibaton and cell phone all under a shirt. The only weight that's an issue is the extra 20 around my own middle.

 

[Billy Shears]

Well, almost. Its not the bushing that allows the slide to be made so thin, though. Its because it has internal locking lugs. So does that Hi-Power of yours. Both the Hi-Power and 1911 slides are thin.

Sorry, and all due respect to you, but this is wrong.

Yes, both the Hi-Power and 1911 slides are thin, but compare the two side by side and you'll notice that the Hi-Power's slide is no thinner than that of the 1911, despite the fact that the barrel inside the Hi-Power's slide is of significantly smaller outer diameter than the barrel of the 1911. The reason for this is the barrel bushing on the 1911 and the lack of it on the Hi-Power.

The locking lugs do indeed allow the upper surface of the slides of both guns to have a rounded off contour, however they do nothing whatever to affect the width of the slide. It is the barrel bushing or lack thereof, and how this allows the barrel to be removed from the slide that affects that.

As I said earlier, when the barrel bushing is removed, the 1911's barrel is removed by pulling it longitudinally out from the front end of the slide. If there were no removable bushing, and the 1911 had a solid front end like the Hi-Power and most pistols since have, then the barrel would have to be removed the same way the Hi-Power's is -- by lifting it out through the opening on the underside of the slide.

Now field strip a 1911 and try to remove the barrel through the underside of the slide. You can't. It won't come out that way. The slide rails are too close together to allow the barrel to pass between them. In order to get the barrel out between the slide rails on a 1911, the rails would have to be moved farther apart, probably about an eighth of an inch, which would necessitate widening the entire slide by the same amount. The result would be a thicker slide. This is why the .45 caliber M1911 has a slide that is narrower than most 9mms, even though the 9mms, with smaller-diameter barrels seem like they ought to be flatter through the slide. They're not because their slide rails have to be spaced far enough apart to allow the barrel to come out between them. So even though you have a slimmer barrel, the slide is as wide or wider than that of a 1911.

 

[FranklyTodd]

Let me throw this out there. I'm a j-frame pocket-carrier usually (also with a sub-compact auto for sometimes), but wanting a full-size auto for when circumstances allow.

I've decided (tentatively) that the S&W M&P45 is for me. Thin with great ergonomics like a 1911, optional external safety in the same place as a 1911, reliable as heck, and very light compared to a 1911.

Any takers or bashers of my conclusion?

 

[Rustynuts]

1911 45 Compared to my XD Subcompact 40 (both 3" barrels). Take a look at the narrowness of the 1911. Put some slim carry grips and it's barely wider than the main spring housing on the grip! Thinness as well as size counts when concealing. Single stack is much easier to carry than any double stack.

 

[easyg]

I don't see much difference between the two in the picture provided.

Just curious, what's the weight difference between the two?

 

[skinewmexico]

Truthiness! Plus, carrying a firearm isn't supposed to be comfortable, its supposed to be comforting.

Get out of the old school mindset, it can be both.

 

[Wheeler44]

On the other hand, GLOCKS "gain a lot of weight" in a holster.

Honey does this holster make my gun look fat Ha ha ha .

 

[Kind of Blued]

Its probably one of 2 reasons:

The tension screw is too tight;
Its got a rubber housing for the tension screw that is creating drag and friction on the trigger guard.

I can't see where you mention it, but I'm going to venture a guess and say you're currently using an Aker IWB holster for your 220 right now?

What make and width is that gun belt?

The belt is a 1 3/4" Desantis, thick black leather. The holster is a Desantis Speed Scabbard ( http://www.desantisholster.com/002.html ) which is actually an OWB, but holds the grip in very tight to my lower back at about 4 o' clock. I did intend this thread as addressing the 1911 in an IWB situation, but my holster problem seems to be one that would persist if it were IWB too.

I think you may have a point with the rubber washer creating friction on the trigger gaurd. As you can see from the photo on the website, the tension screw is indeed right there, and the rubber washer is between the inside and outside pieces of leather.

The tension screw is set just tight enough so it won't unscrew itself and fall out, I tightened it with my thumbnail. I think the problem is, as you said, the rubber piece causing friction on the trigger guard. I'll take it apart and see what I can do about it. I expect I'll see quite a bit of wear on the rubber piece. I'll see if there is any way I can remove it all together without causing nasty scratches on the trigger guard with each subsequent draw.

Thanks for the insight. I'm suprised I didn't notice that before.

 

[Walkalong]

I don't see much difference between the two in the picture provided.

 

[easyg]

Try to measure it on your monitor from grip to grip....there's not much difference at all.