Can this be more than one way to skin a cat?

[hang fire]

Anyway...back on topic.

I vote to buy a modern replica to shoot and hang that old Colt on the wall before ya break it, lad.

Hardly a lad, sonny. I have been shooting and building black powder guns for around 50 years.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/Index.html

I guess next, I will be told to not be shooting my favorite BPCR. A JM Marlin Ballard #5 Pacific in .45-70, as mfg. around 1877-78, it is even older than the Colt.

 

[hoghunting]

I am not an engineer, nor stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, so any input and critique as to my approach would be appreciated.

Obviously not too appreciated as any advice they have given you has been ignored or argued. Why ask for advice if you have all the answers?

 

[1911Tuner]

Hardly a lad sonny

Sonny? I wish!

Lad...A term that I often use generically in addressing my peers. A British colloquialism...even though I'm not British.

"I've been playing darts with the lads." (Even though the lads are all well into their 60s.)

I have been shooting and building black powder guns for around 50 years.

Then you should know that some of the old (iron) ones can let go suddenly and without apparent reason...even using real black powder. (Ask me how I'd know about that.)

 

[hang fire]

Re: hoghuntin:

While appreciated, input and critique is not the end all written in stone, it is to be evaluated and weighed, then accepted or discarded. But, when it comes to telling me I should not be shooting the Colt, period, that was a personal opine, And when it come to such opinions, they are like a certain bodily orifice, everyone has one.

One guy did steer me to some content on shimming of the revolver recoil shield to close the B/C gap, so my idea is nothing new. On the Ruger forum even years ago, some guys were doing same as a matter of course to correct excessive B/C gap on the Ruger SA. And this was not for a low pressure black powder revolver, but for the full power magnums.

 

[1911Tuner]

On the Ruger forum even years ago, some guys were doing same as a matter of course to correct excessive B/C gap on the Ruger SA. And this was not for a low pressure black powder revolver, but for the full power magnums.

Yes. That's been done...and it's never been a problem for the shim because the cylinder isn't driven backward. It can't happen with a bored-through cylinder. It's a jerry-rig method to correct the problem, but it works.

The problem with it is that it leads many to believe that all is well when that may not be the case. If the excessive gap is the result of frame stretch, it comes with excessive headspace, and excessive headspace can result in some unpleasant surprises...even with low-pressure black powder cartridges.

But, when it comes to telling me I should not be shooting the Colt, period, that was a personal opine.

Nobody mandated anything here. Some very experienced people advised you not to...but as with anything else...the choice lies with you. Life is a crapshoot. Roll the dice.

 

[hang fire]

Re: 1911Tuner:

Just curious, I could be wrong, but why are you showing the picture of metallic cartridges with what looks to me to be an 1863 percussion Sharps replica with the Maynard tape primer system? Has it been converted to CF brass cartridge? Is it copied after one of the trial rifles Sharps submited to the US army?

About 30 years ago I converted a Sile .54 paper cartridge percussion Sharps replica to .45-70. The sweated in turned down barrel was from a Ruger #2, the breech block was of my own design.






As to old guns suddenly letting go, I have no doubt that they do. Especially if they were not inspected by a competent person and were mechanically unsafe to fire as designed.

I have no idea how you would know about them failing, perhaps you could relate.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mine is a replica of an 1859 pattern "McNelly" cavalry carbine. After a few close calls with the original percussion and .50-70 conversions...I decided to take my own advice. The cool factor with an original is higher than with the Italian clones, but my eyes still see...pretty well...and my fingers are all intact. A bit stiff these days, but they're there.

Gettin' old ain't for sissies...

See...The thing is that the forum owners are responsible for what gets posted here, and we have to be on the lookout for any advice that could pose a danger to a shooter if followed.

We understand that excess B/C gap often comes with excessive headspace, but a year down the road, some guy who is obsessed with the pursuit of the nth degree of velocity may not. He sees is a quick fix for his hurdle in obtaining that last 30 fps, and that's all he sees... and he may not realize that his revolver is within .002 inch of removing his fingers. But, he thinks that his problem has been cured, and he proceeds to blast away, further stretching the frame and increasing the headspace.

But...

If he knows that the frame is stretched, he may moderate his ammunition or his usage after having the problem properly corrected by a revolver smith or an armorer.

If we post the warnings, and he blows his eyes out, he has no legal recourse...even if he didn't see them. If we don't, he can come at us with a ruinous lawsuit...and win.
But, that's not the reason for the warnings. We really don't want anybody to get hurt.

Your revolver is old, and...unless it belonged to your grandfather and your father before you...it has an unknown history. For all we know, somebody may have duplicated Elmer Keith's thunderboomer .45 Colt data before you got it and stretched the frame badly, accounting for the excessive gap.

Didn't mean for it to seem like I was beatin' on ya...but we have to post these things.

 

[Old Fuff]

But, when it comes to telling me I should not be shooting the Colt, period, that was a personal opine.

One time during a conversation with several individuals, of which I was one, Jeff Cooper (who had an international reputation for having some very strong opinions), said that everyone had a right to have one about any subject - but the value of such was dependent on the holder's experience and knowledge of the issue in question.

In the opening post you admitted to not having substantial knowledge of the technical aspects of the subject, and ask for others that might have more to submit comments. Apparently you were not happy when some of them did not endorse what you proposed to do.

On my part I do have some experience and knowledge, and the gunsmith I suggested (David Chicoine) is far and away ahead of me. If you should ask him about shooting your 1886 era Colt you would find that he not only opposed the idea, but could give you a detailed explanation as to why. His remarks might just constitute an opinion, which is true. But it would be an opinion coming from a leading authority in the field.

I didn't go as far as I think he would, because reading between the lines of your posts on this and another thread I was convinced that you were determined to continue shooting the revolver regardless of what others might say.

So I suggested that if you were going to continue shooting you could considerably reduce the risk of damage by having a modern "shooting cylinder" installed in the revolver under conditions where no modifications or changes would be made to the gun itself. Keep in mind that "considerably reduce," is not "entirely eliminate."

The chances of shooting black powder loads will not, as I have pointed out, insure that the practice won't at some point cause some damage, but it will reduce the likelihood. If you should decide to retire the six-shooter the possibility of damage from shooting would be reduced to nil. Installing a modern cylinder represents a compromise.

I am submitting this post, not because I think it will change your mind, but rather as a guide for other members and visitors who follow the forum.

 

[hang fire]

It keeps getting repeated by some that the cylinder does not get thrust to the rear in a forceful manner, yet the revolver people on the Ruger forum say otherwise.

This is what “Iowegan Retired Gunsmith” had to say on the matter, and it concurs with what I have stated.

As the bullet enters the cylinder throat, it "plugs" the hole in the throat. This causes the cylinder to thrust forward and move the same direction as the bullet. Forward movement is stopped by the internal bearing surface of the yoke/crane tube in a DA revolver or the front frame/ gas ring bearing surface in a SA revolver.

When the base of the bullet passes the B/C gap, there is a radical change. Because the case has expanded and is now held tight against the chamber walls, the cylinder will be thrust to the rear until it is stopped when the ratchet surface contacts the recoil shield.

http://rugerforum.net/gunsmithing/24253-revolver-recoil-physics.html