Conversion Cylinder Fitting on 1858 Remmy

[230RN]

I purchased an R&D .45 Colt ("Long Colt") conversion cylinder for a steel-framed Uberti 1858 Remington replica, and per the instructions, it may be necessary to file away a portion of the frame to make it fit.

The original percussion cylinder measures 1.998" in length and the R&D conversion cylinder measures 2.005" in length.

Therefore, 0.007" of metal must be removed somewhere for the conversion cylinder to fit in the gun.

The instructions indicate that "Some revolvers may need a small amount of metal removed from the frame (use a file or Dremel [sic] tool) to eliminate interference", with a diagram indicating that the metal should be removed from the area of the frame where the ram of the loading lever protrudes into the cylinder space.

This, of course, means that the original percussion cylinder will have an additional 0.007" of longitudinal play when it is replaced on the gun.

I do not intend to use the percussion cylinder very often, which is why I got the conversion cylinder.

I am reluctant to cut away on the frame of the revolver, and have access to a precision machinist's skills to face off the replacement cylinder the required 0.007" in a lathe.

This, of course, would require:

(1) cold re-bluing of the conversion cylinder face

(2) use of an 0.007" shim (washer) on the original percussion cylinder to restore the correct longitudinal dimensions while installed in the gun (to avoid fore-and-aft play).

There appears to be sufficient cylinder-to-barrel throat gap with the conversion cylinder that removal of this .007" on the frame of the revolver will still allow rotation of the cylinder with no problems. (I cannot measure this gap directly until the cylinder can actually be placed into the gun.)

Question:

In THR's collective experience, would it be better to remove this 0.007" from the frame (per the instructions), or from the cylinder itself?

At this point, my preference would be to face off the conversion cylinder to match the dimensions of the percussion cylinder, rather than remove metal from the gun and correcting the dimensions of the percussion cylinder with a handmade 0.007" shim (washer).

Thank you for your advice,

230RN

(I did a preliminary search for "conversion cylinders," but nothing immediately relevant seemed to turn up.)

 

[Old Dragoon]

I would alter the cylinder face if I had a lathe.

I refaced a Pietta Cylinder(R & D) to fit an Uberti revolving Carbine. I took about twice what you are taking off. I did it with a flat file and Dial mic's to assure flatness of the face. I checked the cylinder at all the hour numbers of a clock face to insure I kept it flat. had I had a lathe it would have been much simpler. I say mill the face of the cylinder on the lathe and cold blue,(Birchwood-Casey Super Blue is good) and apply several coats per instructions, it will wear faster than the original blue, but the original blue wears pretty fast as well. I took off .018 on mine.

This worked for me and the cylinder then fit the Uberti and my Euroarms Remy's as well. The Uberti Conversions fit the Euroarms Remys anyway.
Could be you got a Pietta cylinder for an Uberti gun?? Uberti's cylinders are shorter than the Pietta's by about the amount you need to remove.

 

[sundance44s]

Had to do a little fileing on the cylinder pin window on one of my Remmies for a smooth fit with an R&D cylinder (per the instructions ), didn`t take much just keep test fitting the cylinder when she indexes smooth , took a stone to my file work and a dab of blueing ...haven`t noticed any difference with the cap and ball cylinder in it ..still smooth good as it gets . Best of both worlds .

 

[230RN]

Decision reached

DECISION RESULTANT:

Take the metal off the gun.

VECTORS:

1. The brand-new cylinder cost 1.4 times the cost of the gun, which was purchased used.

2 Modifying the gun by filing the "cylinder pin window*" will not devalue the gun.

3. It is unknown whether or not the extra end play in the percussion cylinder resulting when metal is removed from the gun will affect accuracy or functioning. If it does not affect accuracy or function, well and good. If it does, it is a relatively simple matter to shim it out to restore it to the factory end play.

4. Modifying the cylinder by either machining or hand-filing will devalue the cylinder, since it then might not be usable in other Remingtons from other replica manufacturers. In addition, I have done enough machine work to know that every once in a while, with powered machinery, despite the best planning, accidents can happen which will ruin the part. Even if the gun itself is lost or destroyed somehow, an unmodified CF cylinder is still marketable to a wider "customer base."

5. I can do the hand-filing on the gun itself in only a few hours, and can "go play with it" much sooner than if it were turned over to the precision machinist mentioned in the first post. (I already bought Cowboy Action ammo for it.)

6. Hand-filing on the gun is the Manufacturer's- recommended method.

Thank you for relating your experiences. It was very helpful!

----------
* "Cylinder pin window " --Thanks for that nomenclature, SunDance44s !

 

[rifle]

I'd see if the existing space,since most cap&ballers have some extra space, was sufficient to fit the R&D into the gun with no modifications. Is this gun so tight already that a cylinder .007's larger will not fit? Well...if that was the case I'd take a minimum off the "cylinder pin window" then. Couldn't be more than a few .001's to take off and that would mean the percussion cylinder wouldn't be "too loose".

 

[Old Fuff]

Before I did anything I'd contact the cylinder maker. They might exchange the cylinder you have for one that was .007" shorter. Or they might take the cylinder you have, shorten it and then reblue it. Make your own modifications as a last resort.

 

[sundance44s]

I bought my cylinder from Taylors , they are good about makeing things right ..I could have sent my Remmie and the cylinder to them and they would have done the work ..but I was ready to try this new toy out , tired of waiting ..and after all they would have done the same thing to relieve the binding .I figured cylinders and grips on these Itilian guns were something quaility control , does a lot of miss and hit , seems no two are the same ..it`s just casting ..and I`m sure the cylinders being made in the good ole USA aren`t the problem ...Still waiting on USFA to make me a Remmie .

 

[MrAcheson]

Take the metal off the gun. While I think turning the cartridge cylinder back is the more elegant solution, you're right the economics don't work out. If you fit the gun to the cylinder, the worst case scenario is that you have to buy an additional percussion cylinder for the gun that fits the altered frame. When last I checked, they're available for about $40. Cartridge cylinders are what, 5 times that?

 

[230RN]

Test Firing

Rifle: The gun is apparently pretty tight in that longitudinal "cylinder window" dimension. I don't have a set of feeler gauges available at the house, but cylinder/throat gap eyeballed out at .003 or .005 for the percussion cylinder, according to my calibrated eyeballs.

Old Fuff: You old guys are more patient than us "youts." I mentioned I was anxious to play with it, as sundance44s was with his, so shipping it off was a last choice. (I'm 67, so you must be at least 97, right? 107?)

MrAcheson: I followed your thinking. I clamped it up in a padded vise and stroked carefully with a flat mill, trying for fit every three or four strokes. Cut once, try twice, right? Took about 15 strokes.

Got it to fit in the cylinder window and rotating nicely, but had a little trouble pushing the axle pin back in due to very slight burring and some stray chips. Took care of that, and was reluctant to try fitting it with live cartridges at the house. Went to the range to do that.

At the range, I had difficulty inserting the loaded cylinder back in whilst keeping the barrel pointed downrange, but finally got it. As a matter of fact, the percussion cylinder didn't exactly drop in easily either before the relief cutting, confirming that the gun is pretty tight, per Rifle's remarks.

Fired five shots (Mag-Tek Cowboy Action Loads --250 gr 761 f/s [45D]) out of a squeaky clean barrel, 15 yards, off a padded rest, as shown below. There are no other shots in this target, and one is an inch below the paper under the arrow. Point of aim was the bottom of the bull.

You will note the vertical stringing, which is what I'd expect out of a freshly cleaned accurate rifle as the barrel fouled up with each shot. But the horizontal string is only about two inches, so the gun would seem to be basically pretty accurate...

...but I had a lot of difficulty re-inserting the reloaded cylinder to shoot another group, and I didn't want to attract too much attention with all the fussing around trying to get the reloaded cylinder in --as if I were doing gunsmithing on the firing line.

So I gave up dinking around with the loaded cylinder --especially difficult with trying to keep an empty chamber under the hammer. I burned up the rest of my range time with the other 73 guns I had brought to the range.

At this point, I have not looked the gun over yet, since I've had back spasms for the past week and I'm loaded up with rattlesnake venom as a prescription muscle relaxant. (If I bite a rattler on the tail, he'll probably die.)

So when I'm less distracted by pain and general muscular floppiness due to the medication, I'm going to take a another couple of strokes on it with the mill file.

You guys (all of you) have no idea how much I appreciate your comments.

If there is still interest in this thread, I will continue the ongoing saga with "General Lee," which is what I named the gun.

'Tis a wierd romance I have with it.

 

[Old Fuff]

If you have some .454" round balls (used in the percussion cylinder) drive one down the barrel with a piece of 7/16" wood dowel. Measure the ball with dial calipers or a "mike," and see if the diameter is .454" or larger. If so the bore is oversized for the bullet, which is likely .452".

At this point you might be better off rubbing the cylinder face against a piece of #300 emery paper backed by a flat, hard surface. Rotate it a bit after each stroke and hold it firmly against the paper. You can finish with finer grits. For decent accuracy the face must be flat, and perpendicular to the bore.