Can we say price gouging in light of recent events?

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Anyone who remembers the 1994 AWB has seen all of this before. Over the years when wandering gun shows and at my local gun shop when I saw good deals on magazines for what I own I brought them. They add up. Yesterday morning I went online to Armalite and bought 20 additional magazines without a problem and at a reasonable pre freak out price. I figured why not.

Anyway, what is going on is nothing new and nothing we haven't seen before. You can either pay $50 or whatever or do without or hope nobody buys and they come down in price. A new AWB is not going to happen overnight. Hell yes, you will see price gouging. How do you think $100 SKS rifles got where they are today or $179 AK rifles got where they are today?

Ron
 
9thchild said:
Price gouging is not wrong ...
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Price gouging is wrong, and is illegal in certain circumstances.

However, what we have here really just "profiteering" ... a pejorative for making an (excessive) profit by methods considered unethical. i.e. wrong. It reflects business that have a weak grasp of business ethics.

Oh, and profiteering can be illegal in some circumstances when it is part of price fixing and other anti-competitive practices (but not that this is the case in this situation).

9thchild said:
Price gouging is not ... bad for the economy
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Yes, it certainly can be bad for the economy. In this case, we are talking about micro-economies ... one actor profiteers (the distributor commands excessive profits), the other actor suffers (the manufacturer potentially sells less due to distorted retail pricing, and at least does not see a share of those excessive profits ... the manufacturer is relatively less well off). The consumer also suffers, particularly if the profiteering is a short term bubble.

9thchild said:
It is simply a response to market stimuli.
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It is a response to market stimuli, but a defective and disproportionate one. With profiteering, the prices and profits as increasing faster than supply would otherwise seem to warrant. It is an extremely short-sighted response, that would assume inelasticities that do not yet exist.

In plain speak, its poor business, particularly since there are many alternatives that have much more reasonable pricing ...
 
Midway's 2 per person limit at normal pricing was about keeping them available.
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Easily circumvented though. I have the means to set up multiple accounts with Midway and could snag several per day if I so wished. I have to believe there are others out there that have these means and did in fact acquire many from Midway, wiping them clean as we see today. So Midway's policy did nothing to provide today's buyer with the highly sought after Pmag. Today's buyer, if he believes he needs one of these that bad, can acquire one at a premium.
 
I don't understand how an entity selling their property for the best price they can get could possibly be immoral.
 
I don't understand how an entity selling their property for the best price they can get could possibly be immoral.
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Not immoral; Unethical. And foolish.

They're free to charge whatever prices they want, and we're free to boycott them for profiteering.

If a new ban is rammed down our throats, as mentioned, it will probably prohibit distribution of "contraband" after the effective date. These unscrupulous distributors charging insane amounts for items they had in stock (they didn't adjust prices to maintain margins) getting stuck with unsellable surplus would be a small amount of karmic justice.

If there is no new ban, things will calm down, and companies that engaged in this practice will reap what they sow. I know that I will personally do everything I can to dissuade people from patronizing said companies (not difficult with CTD, since they have always been higher than the competition)
 
We also have to look at the manufacturers of the product, not just the dealers and the wholesalers.

I am friendly with a local gun store owner. He came into my shop today (he's a customer of mine) as he left the shop running with a couple of regular staffers when he normally works closely with the customers looking to buy this time of year. Why? He can't GET anything to sell. No ammo, no guns, no mags. There isn't anything to get a hold of. He sold something like 12 .50 rifles at his normal mark up yesterday and can't get ammo for them.

The supplier is sitting on it. Until demand reaches the price he wants, he won't sell to this LGS owner even though he has plenty on hand.
 
Are you not the same people vilify anything not purely capitalist?

This is not price gouging, these prices are not any anything anyone really needs. If food, fuel, and medicine were suddenly inflated in price as a result of an emergency that would be price gouging. Ammo, firearms and accessories just happen to be worth a lot more than they were a few days ago as a result of panic buying.

Sit down and take a deep breath and look at the situation objectively. Nothing, not even needed, justified legislation is making it through congress now. There is almost no chance of anti-gun legislation making it's way into law anytime soon.
 
Say what you want about CTD, I would do the same thing.

1) I spoke with a nice lady there this morning because I wanted to purchase an FN that I had my eye on and finally got the money to by. She said the firearms sales have been "SUSPENDED" not permanently ended. Her suspicion is that once the dust settles, they will get back to doing busines as usual. The owner apparently has justification for it. I may disagree with his reason, but I don't know what his reason is.

2) As far as Price Gouging or Profiteering, all I can say is "Hey this is still the USA and capitalisim still reigns supreme." If you can make a bigger profit on other peoples ignorance or lazyness, you have a right to do so. It isn't CTD's fault there are people who didn't see this coming and now panic and buy everything they can.

Buyer beware. There are lots of other outlets selling firearms and accessories at much better prices. If someone is too lazy to search those sources out, well too bad for them.

Unethical? Immoral? Disgusting? Short sighted? Mmmmm That could be one interpretation. Practical, rational, self conscious, free market economics is what I call it. Let your fingers do the shopping. Don't like CTD shop somewhere else.......Don't let the door hit you on the way out.............
 
Demand goes way up in a short time. Supply doesn't. You have two options: 1. Run out of supply. 2. Increase price to reduce demand. It really is simple
 
You may notice that CTD has pmags in stock while brownells, midway, and others do not.
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Which is exactly why it's profiteering. One more time:

prof·it·eer [ pròffi tr ] 1.make excessive profits: to make excessive profits by charging high prices for scarce, necessary, or rationed goods

Mark my words, this will come back to bite them one way or another. Like I said above, either a new ban will come to fruition and they'll be stuck with the merchandise (or maybe be able to liquidate it to LE, probably at a loss, since LE can buy direct from Magpul at wholesale anyway), or it won't and people will remember who was fair and who wasn't during this difficult time.
 
You may notice that CTD has pmags in stock while brownells, midway, and others do not.
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I placed an order with Brownells last night and they were shown as in stock. I got an email an hour ago saying they are now back ordered. Thats fine with me as I think I got a good deal at $12 per mag.
 
Mark my words, this will come back to bite them one way or another. Like I said above, either a new ban will come to fruition and they'll be stuck with the merchandise (or maybe be able to liquidate it to LE, probably at a loss, since LE can buy direct from Magpul at wholesale anyway), or it won't and people will remember who was fair and who wasn't during this difficult time.
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If you will remember CTD did the same thing back in 2008. Ammo like .380 was selling for $50 a box. Lots of people said they would never buy from them again. But they did. Every time I pass the store in Ft Worth it is packed. And they are NOT cheap. Only Cabelas seems to be higher priced on guns.

I just hope their supplier jacks up their prices to CTD. :evil:
 
I, personally, believe in capitalism as well as the market rules of supply and demand. If they want to jack up their prices, then they are free to do so, and I don't condemn them for that. Good on 'em -- it is the American Dream, and I hope they make a whole ton of money.

Obviously, as buyers we also have the ability to choose where we spend our money, too, and I just don't want anything they have to sell at those 'market' prices.
 
Er, what's price gouging? Isn't that what socialists call the result of supply and demand? Are you suggesting the government fix the price of magazines & ammunition? Cause we all know how well that works in the labor market.
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Exactly! Whining about "price gouging" is liberal thinking. So-called "price gouging" actually spreads the supply where it needs to go. Rather than a few individuals buying all they can, leaving the rest of us to suffer, only those who really need whatever it is buy it. What we need is MORE "price gouging" until the panic buying subsides.

Stop getting your logic from the evening news. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry MachIV
Magazines, etc. are not necessary items like food, meds and fuels. They are not the only purveyor of the items, therefore no profiteering is going on. Want to complain about high prices, how about a cd of software? Ten cents of material might cost you $500. Why? Because what is on that cd has that value to some folks. If $60 mags are not your cup of tea, the do not buy them
 
Er, what's price gouging? Isn't that what socialists call the result of supply and demand? Are you suggesting the government fix the price of magazines & ammunition? Cause we all know how well that works in the labor market.
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Price gouging is in fact a real phenomenon for those of you with zero understanding of actual economic theory and a complete misunderstanding of capitalism. Rampant greed and gouging is, in fact, NOT part of the definition of capitalism. That's a recent addition by far right politicians and venture capitalists.

If you actually study and understand capitalism it discusses private ownership of production and the ability of markets to set reasonable prices for goods in a normal market. Price gouging on the other hand is generally referred to as using non-normal conditions to raise prices over the short term and provide well in excess of normal profit margins.

Examples of gouging would be after a natural disaster people selling bottled water for $5-10 per bottle or doubling the price of gasoline, or CTD raising prices overnight on magazines by 50%. And yes in many cases of natural disasters the government curtails the ability of people to charge whatever they want for supplies, and indeed actually prosecutes retailers for doing that, it has nothing to do with socialism. In any event it's a bad long term strategy for a business like CTD that you would think is trying to stay in business over the long term.

But lucky for them, they won't have the opportunity to supply me, ever. Now that's captalism in action.
 
Misunderstanding of Capitalism? Sorry Browningguy, I'll have to disagree.

Webster's definition of Capitalism:

Definition of CAPITALISM
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.

"Rampant greed and gouging is, in fact, NOT part of the definition of capitalism. That's a recent addition by far right politicians and venture capitalists."

I disagree.

One must prove collusion and coersion before one can prosecute illegal
"Gouging" or "Profiteering." Short of that, it is just your opinion that those terms are not part of capitalism. Read the definition. Words like "Private Decision," "Prices," and "Competiton in a free market" are all words that describe what CTD is doing and have every right to do so.

I understand your frustration and actually I agree with you, that their policy is, in the long term, bad for their reputation and their business. However it is THEIR business and I see no reason to let them do as they wish. They are doing nothing illegal.
 
Sorry MachIV
Magazines, etc. are not necessary items like food, meds and fuels. They are not the only purveyor of the items, therefore no profiteering is going on.
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Being the only source of an item is not a prerequisite. As it happens, though, they did hold onto their stock until every major competitor was out, and then released them at massively inflated prices.

"Necessary" goods also isn't a prerequisite of profiteering. Re-read the definition. Price gouging with necessary items has a different definition: EXTORTION.

They're free to do it, but they'd better be prepared to deal with the repercussions. I will personally go out of my way to discourage people from doing business with CTD because of these actions.

Want to complain about high prices, how about a cd of software? Ten cents of material might cost you $500. Why? Because what is on that cd has that value to some folks.
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Might also have to do with paying software developers to write those programs, paying attorneys to protect that information, marketing, etc. If the free market determines the price is fair, then it is. But if a software retailer has a program or game that is in high demand and holds onto their stock until everyone else is sold out and then jacks the price from $500 to $2000, they can expect people to be pissed, and they can also expect it to cost them business when things settle down and the retailers who didn't pull such stunts get all the business as the product supply catches up with demand and stock returns.

One must prove collusion and coersion before one can prosecute illegal
"Gouging" or "Profiteering."
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I haven't scrutinized every post, but I don't recall anyone asking CTD be prosecuted.
 
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SilentStalker said:
I cannot believe this BS. I vote we boycott Dick's Sporting Goods and Cheaper Than Dirt. I also find the fact that they are trying to capitalize on this downright disrespectful, as that is all this is.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/MAG-074

This same magazine 2 days ago was $12.50
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If you think their prices are too high, please buy from another seller. Neither Cheaper than Dirt nor Dick's have ever been among my favorite vendors. Please note CTD has sold out of PMAGS at this time. So the price you found unreasonable was apparently reasonable to some other customers. Glancing over the CDNN magazine selection, it's clear there is likely a run on AR magazines based on their short inventory.
 
I haven't scrutinized every post, but I don't recall anyone asking CTD be prosecuted.
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No MachIVshooter, I don't think anyone has accused CTD of doing anything worthy of prosecution either. My point is that folks need to be careful in their use of words. Unless and until it can be proven that some illegality was perpetrated by CTD, I think we can and should voice our opinions relating to their business practices, and avoid words that may imply that CTD has done something unlawful.

We might all agree that what they're doing is wrongheaded, but they're making their own bed and they'll have to sleep in it.

That's all.
 
They're free to do it, but they'd better be prepared to deal with the repercussions.
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Exactly, but what they are doing is maximizing their potential profit, the same way ANY retailer does during certain times or events during the year
 
Examples of gouging would be after a natural disaster people selling bottled water for $5-10 per bottle or doubling the price of gasoline, or CTD raising prices overnight on magazines by 50%.
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That's an interesting textbook response. Ever been in an area after a natural disaster? Everybody and their brother puts all the gasoline they can buy into every container they can find. Until it's all gone. Then they sit at home with their gasoline. Meanwhile, the folks who actually need the gasoline to fix everything that's been destroyed can't get it. "Price gouging", as you people call it, prevents hoarding. More people get what they need, the few hoarders are discouraged from hoarding. I could give a damn if they make some extra money, as long as hoarding is prevented. People do the same thing with food, water, batteries, primers, powder, ammo, etc..
 
If businesses want to gouge people that waited too long to buy something, then I have ZERO problem with that.

Scene from a great movie, "The Trigger Effect." During SHTF moment, the main character goes to try to buy his first gun in a very crowded pawn shop. All that is available is a common 12 ga and a box of shells (at the time the movie was made, you're talking about $100 or so in value). Store owner demands cash or trade, and takes his $600 watch in trade. Says, "you're the moron who waited until the power went to buy a gun."

If you don't want it or can't afford it, don't buy it. Rewards those of us who thought ahead... why should a business NOT make a profit for an 'in demand' item.

No different than water vending machines charging a $3.00 'convenience' fee for a bottle of water. If you had thought ahead, you could have had a bottle of free water.
 
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