CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Wouldn't wanna call anyone a liar but do you have any reference for this? I ask because recoil of the 1860 rifle is VERY mild and the rifle in question was available in .44 rimfire only. All of which makes it kinda hard to believe.
Can you guess from these PIC's why my range session was cut short?
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Tommygunn
Member
CraigC said:
Craig, the account was in one of a number of books I have on Winchester and trying to find which one at this point might be a bit interesting. With regards to the issue of the 1860 Henry being a rimfire is of course true, but what a lot of people don't know is that the priming material (fulminating mercury) was placed in the base of the case and covered the entire case, not just inside the rim. It apparantly wasn't a concern back then to get the priming material only into the rim. This is why a rimfire round could be ignited in this way; the point of the round would rest against the center of the base of the one in front, but there would still be primer compound there.
The recoil of the round might not be great but it was enough. Mercury fulminate is a very sensitive material. Winchester had a number of accidents while mixing it, and this would cause the company to build a safety wall to deflect the force of the explosion away from the mixers if it ignited during production.
I don't find the account the least bit incredible.
I've been loading Nosler Ballistic tips in my Winchester 94 30/30 without problems. I TRIED to set off a primed case (no powder, no bullet) by putting the pointy tip of a Ballistic Tip bullet right on the primer and then hitting the base of the bullet with a hammer. No go. The tip deformed and would not indent the primer. After that I loaded 6 of them into my rifle and fired them all without issue. I then went to the range and fired 50 of them. No problems. Now that's all I carry in the ole 30/30. 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, Varget Powder, & CCI Primers.
pakmcc
Member
Yes, I did know .41 will at lease work in a .44 special. the bullets were going through target sideways. Have you ever tried to resize .41 fired in a .44 chamber back to .41, you need lots of greaze. All my "N" frame smiths have 6 inch barrels so they are hard to tell apart.
Re: Mag tube detonations...
A friend tells of an incident at the loading table during a Cowboy Action Shooting match. Seems the shooter had just filled the mag of his Henry replica (they load from the front), and instead of slowly easing the mag follower down onto the rounds, he just slapped it over, allowing the mag spring to snap the follower down on the lead round. Somewhere along the line of cartridges there was a primer standing just proud enough to go Bang. Only the one round went off, and most to the force dissipated through the slot in the mag where the follower handle travels. No one was seriously hurt although the shooter in question ended up with a jagged hunk of brass case in his forehead, just above and between the eyes. It pays to wear eye protection!
A friend tells of an incident at the loading table during a Cowboy Action Shooting match. Seems the shooter had just filled the mag of his Henry replica (they load from the front), and instead of slowly easing the mag follower down onto the rounds, he just slapped it over, allowing the mag spring to snap the follower down on the lead round. Somewhere along the line of cartridges there was a primer standing just proud enough to go Bang. Only the one round went off, and most to the force dissipated through the slot in the mag where the follower handle travels. No one was seriously hurt although the shooter in question ended up with a jagged hunk of brass case in his forehead, just above and between the eyes. It pays to wear eye protection!
BADUNAME37
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I will not say anything negative as we can all have our bad days and I don't want the next bad day to be "on-me."
At least we are a pretty honest, and friendly group here.
That, I like, that's why I put the word FRIENDLY in my name!!
At least we are a pretty honest, and friendly group here.
That, I like, that's why I put the word FRIENDLY in my name!!
my frind comes shooting with me somewhat often & is verry safty consious and a good shooter. well at that time i had a beretta 92fs & beretta 96. well you guessed it he took the 92 mag & put in the 96. shot it called me over said it didnt eject. i cleared it reracked it & then i shot one round. it made a funny noise & didnt eject. i decided to pull it out of service. i then released the mag and when i saw the rounds were 9mm & not .40 i new what happend. he was lucky that nothing happend to him. it didnt seem to hurt the 96 at all. it still shot the same after that. he apologized after & i could tell he felt bad, i was just glad he didnt get hurt. although he always follows good safety habits, he just had a brain fart. one more reason to be even more alert & safty consious, not only with ourselves but those around us.
AKElroy
Member
The frustrating thing is, I am completely neurotic on this issue. I don't even take my .308 and .243 to the same range session because of this. With the cases being so different between the .30-30 and the .308, grabbing the wrong box from the bag was never even a concern. Why be concerned? NO WAY I would ever mix those up. Right---
I posted this because I am a safety freak, and I think I am extremely careful.
I shoot quite a bit, and bottom line, I posted this because I think it is easy for ANYONE to get complacent when repetition is involved.
That, and none of you people know me.
Dallas Jack
Member
AKElroy, I read that same article. Seems like it was written in the 80's. Sure made me wonder "is it safe or not"
Dallas Jack
Dallas Jack
qajaq59
Member
I think your suggestion about getting enough sleep would be a good one for you to follow. LOL
And better the wrong bullet jamed in the rifle then the wrong powder in the case so get some sleep before you reload too.
SwampWolf
Member
I read the op's post with a chuckle because it reminded me of a similar incident that happened to me back in 1965 while stationed at the Wurtsmith AFB, in Oscoda, Michigan. At the time, the Air Force recreation department would rent out either Stevens double barrel 12 gauge shotguns or Winchester Model 94 carbines to airmen @ the rate of a dollar a day. Sometime in November of that year, two other airmen and myself decided that we would try our hands at bear hunting in the U.P. and so we each rented a 30-30 and headed north.
To make a very long story short and one more germane to the topic at hand, on the eve of our departure from where we were hunting and return to the base, I found that I could not unload my carbine. Upon turning the Model 94 to the rec department it was determined that I had inadvertently loaded a .308 round into the Winchester and, as I recall, it took some doing on the part of the armorer to retrieve it and "unjam" the little 94. I soon realized how this happened: During the previous deer season, I had used a Winchester Model 100 semi-auto rifle chambered in .308. Though I later sold the rifle (worst "deal" involving guns I've ever made-but I digress), apparently a stray .308 round remained in the pocket of my hunting coat and, well, you should be able to pretty much figure out the rest.
You can never be too careful...
To make a very long story short and one more germane to the topic at hand, on the eve of our departure from where we were hunting and return to the base, I found that I could not unload my carbine. Upon turning the Model 94 to the rec department it was determined that I had inadvertently loaded a .308 round into the Winchester and, as I recall, it took some doing on the part of the armorer to retrieve it and "unjam" the little 94. I soon realized how this happened: During the previous deer season, I had used a Winchester Model 100 semi-auto rifle chambered in .308. Though I later sold the rifle (worst "deal" involving guns I've ever made-but I digress), apparently a stray .308 round remained in the pocket of my hunting coat and, well, you should be able to pretty much figure out the rest.
You can never be too careful...
JustinCglass
Member
if you put spitzer tips into a tube mag, the pressure from the plunger won't hold the cartridge strait in the tube. When you operate the action, the bullet gets jammed in between the lifter gate and the loading gate.
the LR and LR magnum primer cups take quite a smack to set it off.
I'm sure if the tip is soft lead, it is likely not to go off. but to be safe, I'm gonna keep them for single shot, I like using the spitzers.
the flat or round nose perjectiles seem to operate the best for the tube fed
the LR and LR magnum primer cups take quite a smack to set it off.
I'm sure if the tip is soft lead, it is likely not to go off. but to be safe, I'm gonna keep them for single shot, I like using the spitzers.
the flat or round nose perjectiles seem to operate the best for the tube fed
JustinCglass
Member
amen to that!We all have an attack of the galloping dumb a$$ every now and then.
AKElroy
Member
Never thought you did; no worries. I was hoping for a few more confessions of gallopingdumbassisms to make me feel a little less idiotic, though! Although I do really like SwampWolf's post.
Dr T
Member
I saw a recent article in, I believe, Rifle, discussing a Japanese battle rifle used during WWII. I believe that the cartridge was 6.5 mm Jap.
Someone had the rifle rechambered to 30-06 (thinking it was 7.7 Jap) without reboring the rifle barrel.
They had fired the rifle (and it did not blow up). The bullet was swagged down to 6.5 mm. However, the owner returned it to the gunsmith complaining about the recoil and the lousy accuracy.
The gun ended up in the hands of the NRA that did some additional testing, concluding that the action had to be one of the strongest ever designed.
Someone had the rifle rechambered to 30-06 (thinking it was 7.7 Jap) without reboring the rifle barrel.
They had fired the rifle (and it did not blow up). The bullet was swagged down to 6.5 mm. However, the owner returned it to the gunsmith complaining about the recoil and the lousy accuracy.
The gun ended up in the hands of the NRA that did some additional testing, concluding that the action had to be one of the strongest ever designed.
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