Can you send a soldier in Iraq a scope and mounts? Wanna help?

[El Rojo]

Hey everyone. The interim pastor from our church up and joined the military and is now a Chaplain serving north of Baghdad. He set up a prayer support writing campaign and so he has given out some addresses and a few of us write to a pen pal soldier twice a month as moral support and to just let them get some mail now and then.

So I finally heard back from my soldier and what do you know? He wants to start a gun collection and was very interested that I was a shooter. Nice!!! So I just sent him a letter back and asked him about his service rifle and what he has on it (14.5", 20", A2, A3, Aimpoint, EOtech?). I asked him if the Army minded if he got a scope in the mail and if he could stick it on top of his weapon for guard tower duty. He isn't infantry, but I know I would love to have a 9, 12, or 20 power scope on top of that tower if I were trying to stop insurgents from launching mortars, RPGs or a Draganov at me from 400-800 meters off.

For those of you here who have served or are serving, what is the army's take on getting a scope in the mail and sticking it on your M4/M16? Can they do that? If they can, I am considering lending one of my scopes to him if he wants it and just returns it when he is done. Or I was thinking, how cool would it be if I could get a few THR members to kick in $5 each and buy him a scope on the condition that he takes a photo of him with it and a "Thanks THR" placard (keeping op security in mind). Then when he leaves at the end of the deployment, he can just pass it on and have the next guy write me and take a new THR thanks picture.

Someone let me know if we can get away with this and also chime in if you would be interested in such a project. It might not happen, but I am sort of excited about it. I think that would be a great thing to do. Sure we can't help every soldier, but just one makes it worth it in my book.

 

[dakotasin]

you can send him whatever you want, including complete uppers, if you wanted to. whether or not he is able to use them is up to his individual chain of command.

i ran a fund like this to send one of our soldiers an eotech and necessary mounting hardware for his a-2. had a helluva time getting the money up, but we did it, and sent it to him. the eotech is now residing on his weapon... the only thing i asked of the soldier was that he let me know that he got the stuff. took around 2-3 weeks for him to get it.

as far as scopes go, i would think in a combat situation that a soldier would prefer the heads-up display of the eotech over a 'traditional' scope - but i am not the one over there.

if you are gonna send him an eotech, i might have some extra mounting hardware left over. i'll check friday (i'm wrapping up finals now), and let you know.

 

[Jeff OTMG]

BE VERY CAREFUL. Much, if not all, of what you want to send would be ILLEGAL. You can carry it over or he can carry it over, but it cannot be sent without an export license from the US State Department.

[CITE: 22CFR120.17]
TITLE 22--FOREIGN RELATIONS
CHAPTER I--DEPARTMENT OF STATE
PART 120_PURPOSE AND DEFINITIONS--Table of Contents
Sec. 120.17 Export.
(a) Export means:
(1) Sending or taking a defense article out of the United States in
any manner, except by mere travel outside of the United States ...

[CITE: 22USC2778]
TITLE 22 > CHAPTER 39 > SUBCHAPTER III > § 2778
§ 2778. Control of arms exports and imports
(b) Registration and licensing requirements for manufacturers, exporters, or importers of designated defense articles and defense services
(1)
(A)
(i) As prescribed in regulations issued under this section, every person (other than an officer or employee of the United States Government acting in an official capacity) who engages in the business of manufacturing, exporting , or importing any defense articles or defense services designated by the President under subsection (a)(1) of this section shall register with the United States Government agency charged with the administration of this section, and shall pay a registration fee which shall be prescribed by such regulations.

[CITE: 22CFR121.1]
TITLE 22--FOREIGN RELATIONS
CHAPTER I--DEPARTMENT OF STATE
PART 121--THE UNITED STATES MUNITIONS LIST--Table of Contents
Sec. 121.1 General. The United States Munitions List.
Category I--Firearms

(b) Riflescopes manufactured to military specifications; firearm
silencers and suppressers, including flash suppressors. (See Category
XII(c) for night sighting devices.)
*(d) Components, parts, accessories and attachments for the articles
in paragraphs (a) through (c) of this category. All the components,
parts, accessories and attachments


[CITE: 22CFR121.8]
TITLE 22--FOREIGN RELATIONS
CHAPTER I--DEPARTMENT OF STATE
PART 121--THE UNITED STATES MUNITIONS LIST--Table of Contents
Sec. 121.8 End-items, components, accessories, attachments, parts, firmware, software and systems.
.
.
(c) Accessories and attachments are associated equipment for any
component, end-item or system, and which are not necessary for their
operation, but which enhance their usefulness or effectiveness.
(Examples: Military riflescopes, special paints, etc.)
(d) A part is any single unassembled element of a major or a minor
component, accessory, or attachment which is not normally subject to
disassembly without the destruction or the impairment of design use.
(Examples: Rivets, wire, bolts, etc.)

 

[Citadel99]

I'm an Army Officer serving in Iraq right now.

First, Chaplains don't carry weapons (but Chaplain's Assistants do).

Second, you can send an optic but not a complete upper. Changing out the upper changes the weapon and the company's MTOE (stuff they are allowed to have).

Mark

 

[RevDisk]

Optics are fine, so long as it is bolt on only. No perminent change to the weapon itself. You'd probably want to look at the Colt 4x quick detachable scope, specificially designed for the M16/AR15 carrying handle. I've seen them for $50 or so.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Must not be too much of a legal problem, the group formely known as "Adopt A Sniper" is still soliciting optics and other things, albeit under a new name:

http://americansnipers.org/about.html

Please help us help working snipers in combat zones around the world.

Snipersonline UA and Sniper's Paradise have several members and Sniper friends actively engaged in the battle against terrorism. Our friends are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the number of snipers deployed around the world right now. These snipers are deployed in the theaters of combat, both in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as other locations overseas. Many of these are full time law enforcement officers that have been activated for regular duty action.

Our memberships have chosen to help support our fellow snipers, and brothers in arms, by helping supply them with items that they need to get the job done better as well as things to make their lives easier while on deployment. This has been everything from the basic hygiene type items such as handy wipes to tactical products such as holsters, high speed rucksacks, new optics, rifle accessories, to mini binoculars and batteries.

Who are We?

We are active local, state, and federal police snipers as well as snipers from the various military branches.

We are a tight-knit group that believes strongly in supporting our brothers that are deployed to the front lines. In return for that support, they then pass on their gained knowledge upon their return.

We work hard and believe in our missions.

We train hard so that when the time comes, we can accomplish our missions to the fullest of our abilities.

We are snipers that need support in the form of advanced gear as well as "creature comfort" items to help us pass the time while we are away from our jobs and our families.

We are the ones putting our lives on the line to help keep this great country safe and free from terrorism. We are your sons, your brothers, your husbands, your fathers, as well as your friends.

We invite you to directly support the effort of those that are going in harms way on your behalf.
===================================
http://americansnipers.org/items.html

List of Things Needed
Since this has started, we have seen patterns of common gear requests emerge between the different operators. The below list is not all inclusive but does include the most common items requested.

ALL GEAR PREFERABLY IN COYOTE TAN, TAN OR KHAKI - OD will suffice, Woodland LAST but okay.

ON TARGET

Sage M14 stocks (Fulton Armory) Mention this project
Quick Disconnect Bi-Pod Adaptors - ARMS # 32 www.mountsplus.com
(Ask for Ned - Mention this project)
Heavy duty foregrips for M16s
Leupold scopes. Any of the tactical line or MK IV's - 1" or 30mm tubes
Leupold CQT - Close Quarter Target Scope
Decent quality mini binos and mini spotting scopes
Leica 1200 rangefinders
Aimpoint Comp M2s www.strategosstore.com
EOTech sights that run on AA Batteries - Night Vision compatible
ARMS M14 Scope Mounts
ARMS Scope Rings
Larue Scope Rings
Badger Ordnacne Scope Rings
Lens wipes
Lenspens
MTM Ammo Wallets
MTN Ammo boxes for 20 rounds that will fit a BDU pocket - Brown or Camo
Garmin 12SL GPS
Kestrel 4000 Weather Meters (Any is better than none)
Mil dot masters www.mildot.com
Beretta 9mm pistol magazines (preferably factory mags) or Wolff-brand replacement magazine springs for same
Tactical Sling for DMR Rifle (M14)
CQB slings of all types
Handgun Lanyards
====================================

That said, I always find it fascinating that a country which spends more on "defense" than the next 20 countries combined cannot ever seem to provide soldiers in the field with the things they need to get their jobs done. But the troops in the field do not make decisions on gold plated hyper expensive weapons systems, Congress, senior DoD civilian bureaucrats and the military brass does that. And the troops in the field do not get the luxury of deciding where they are deployed or what they do either, so none of this should in any way be construed as criticism of the troops. The fatcat bureaucracy, brasshat military and bloated government, yup, no prob criticizing them. But not the troops.

That "more than the next 20 countries combined" remark is not exaggeration on my part, by the way- see http://www.d-n-i.net/charts_data/20_power_standard.htm for the reference. Spend some time on the site there, it's a good education...

And support the troops, if you can spare a dime now that your taxes are paid.

lpl/nc (John Boyd had it NAILED)

 

[RevDisk]

That said, I always find it fascinating that a country which spends more on "defense" than the next 20 countries combined cannot ever seem to provide soldiers in the field with the things they need to get their jobs done. But the troops in the field do not make decisions on gold plated hyper expensive weapons systems, Congress, senior DoD civilian bureaucrats and the military brass does that. And the troops in the field do not get the luxury of deciding where they are deployed or what they do either, so none of this should in any way be construed as criticism of the troops. The fatcat bureaucracy, brasshat military and bloated government, yup, no prob criticizing them. But not the troops.

Well, this has been going on for as long as soldiers have been soldiers.

But keep in mind, for the price of a single Stealth bomber, the US could outfit every soldier in the entire US Army (Active, Guard and Reserve) with a couple sets of GOOD boots (ask any soldier if he only wore his issued boots), good optics for their rifles, and plenty of those goodies meantioned in the above list. Just something to think about.

 

[bogie]

The brass wants something that the grunts can't break.

And I think that the issue boots are pretty comfy.

Not every GI needs a scope. They can slow target acquisition, and cause you to focus too much on what's in the scope, and not on Achmed 15 yards from your intended target, who is aiming an RPG at you. Iron sights are faster in getting lead close, if not on, the target. The battery powered things are great, but you don't get time-outs in event of malfs... I could see mounting one forward of the carry handle ("scout" position" so that you get a nice dot over your front sight if you turn it on, but the iron sights don't need to be switched on or off.

Who do you think an enemy sniper (and I use that term very loosely) as a target of opportunity? A grunt with a stock '16 variant, or the fellow with several pounds (!) of mall-ninjaesque gear hanging off his rifle?

 

[TarpleyG]

I've heard it stated that if you send something and someone else in the unit needs it, they'll get it instead. You'll still be doing a service but don't expect to get it back. That Colt Sporter scope may be the ticket for this use since it is not a CQB situation and it is very inexpensive.

http://www.gunaccessories.com/AR15/AR15scopemounts.asp

Greg

 

[El Rojo]

First, Chaplains don't carry weapons (but Chaplain's Assistants do).

I know, read my post again and you will see that the Chaplain isn't my pen-pal, one of his soldiers is. And thanks Citadel for the permision heads up and for serving. I appreciate your sacrifice.

Second, this isn't really a debate about effectiveness of this scope vs. that scope and for us to mall ninja, armchair quarterback the effectiveness of a scope in combat situations. If he says he could use one and wants one, I will send him one. He isn't infantry, he sits in a tower on base perimeter and just about dies of boredom. He isn't going CQB, but he is keeping an eye out. Usually he just reports anything suspicious a ways out there and an Apache goes out and sees if there is anything to light up with its 30mm.

With that being said, if I were there in that situation, I would not mind at all having a variable power scope on a 20" M16 for sitting up in a tower. If I could get a hold of a scoped M14 or a M21, that would be even better. However, there probably aren't a bunch of non-infantry types that can get an M14 or M21, but he can easily receive a scope, rings, and mounts in the mail that might just give him an edge should the need to reach out there arise. Again, I am just thinking if I were there would would come in awfully handy and a scope just might do it.

I will wait to see what he says. Thanks for the info so far.

 

[ID_shooting]

"ask any soldier if he only wore his issued boots"

They gave me two pairs, once I got out of training, I had jungle boots on my feet. Wore them through two winters in Korea and 4 winters in Kansas (thermal socks) when I was stationed in Texas, they were the "cat's meow."

Anyway, back on topic, like was stated, you can send it, and depending on his command, he might be able to use it. I know I used a personally owned spotting scope on guard duty many times in the ROK. My commander on Ft Riley hated non-TOE equipment.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I have to agree with the statements that it will be up to the soldiers commanding officer whether he will be able to mount the scope or not.

I have a friend who was in Afganistan. He received a scope for his A2, but his commander told him to take it off. I guess it will depend on what type of duty this soldier will be pulling.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Why do we have snipers out there who don't have scopes?

Sounds like very poor planning.

 

[dave3006]

Let me get this straight, the gov't takes half my income in taxes. The gov't starts a stupid, unnecessary war to bring democracy to a bunch of primitives incapable of rational thought. We are dumping $10B of our national wealth per month into that black hole - and you want me to pony up more of my own cash?

No way.

USA will go broke like the USSR because of our obsession with spending money we don't have on places that don't deserve it.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Let me get this straight, the gov't takes half my income in taxes. The gov't starts a stupid, unnecessary war to bring democracy to a bunch of primitives incapable of rational thought. We are dumping $10B of our national wealth per month into that black hole - and you want me to pony up more of my own cash?

Thats kind of what I was thinking too...

edited...

The arabs may be fanatical, following a false god, and generally despise us, but I think they are definitely capable of rational thought.

I do agree with the idea though that the government takes in way too much tax money to send our soldiers off without the gear they need to do their job.

Bush went to war too soon, and too unprepared, but luckily still has been successful.

 

[richyoung]

"...to a bunch of primitives incapable of rational thought..."

BUT they were MORE than capable of grasping nuclear physics, microbiology, and organic chemisrty, and had demonstrated an alarming tendancy to use those talents on their own people AND other countries, (not to mention trying to scrag a former president...). A WMD or even a "dirty bomb" in LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, New York,...heck, why not all of them? Would make 9/11 look like a walk in the park. Not to mentionthat if we can make democracy take hold in the area WITH ALL OF THE OIL, we will be better off in both a defensive, and an energy sense. But go ahead & gripe about the money we are spending - ask any of the next of kin from the World Trade Center how much they would pay to have their relative back..., and multiply that by a factor of 100 to 1000.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

richyoung, why would asking a WTC family have anything to do with the Iraq War?

Do you know of a connection between the WTC disaster and the Iraq War that no one else knows?

 

[mrhuckins]

While I served in Somalia, our Platoon sniper had a non-military issue scope on his weapon. Nothing negative ever came of it. The scope was some type of "red dot" optical scope, but to the best of my knowledge it was not battery powered. I looked through it a couple times. Anyone know what kind of scope it might have been?

 

[dakotasin]

el rojo- first, get the soldiers email addy, and find out if he has a specific need - much faster than waiting on the post offices to run letters. if he does, then try to get a fund going. i had the same trouble w/ my fund that you have now in that everybody wanted to talk about different aspects, and ignored the issue of a soldier in need. stupid or not, the bottom line is one of our own is over there and needed something.

second, if you can define exactly what is needed, and how much it is, the fund will run much smoother.

third, don't send anything low end that runs the risk of coming unglued during use.

fourth, address the package to the specific soldier and he (and only he) will get it.

fifth, if you go ahead w/ this, lmk and i'll see if i still have the arms mounting hardware. i had colt, armalite, and arms, and i *think* i might still have one or two of the mounts left (not an ar-guy, so don't have any need for it).

 

[El Rojo]

Thanks Dakotasin. Good advice.

Hey everyone, do me a favor. I don't really care why we are there or what you think about Bush or the war. I have a pen pal, a US citizen who is sacrificing his time and life to be away from his family and to serve our country. I want to see him come home in one piece. If I can get him something simple to possibly make a difference, let me do that without having to hear your non-legal reservations. Those are your reservations, keep em.

Like I said, they are there, there isn't much we can do about it now, so what can I do to make the difference in one soldier's life? And if he makes a difference in his squad's life, then it multiplies. A lot better odds than casting a vote or writing a letter to my Congressman if you ask me. Most certainly better than hijacking my thread to spread your racist views or hatred for our politicians and tax and spend government. So before my thread gets locked, buzz off and start your own if you want to complain about politics. Thanks.

Thank you to everyone who has given me legal and real world examples of this happening without diving into politics. I do appreciate it.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Nicely said El Rojo. If you do start a fund let me know. I'll contribute. A few bucks out of my pocket is nothing if it helps one of ours come home safely.

 

[pcf]

If you send something, be mindful of what you put on the green customs declaration, more than a few guys have had gear "vaporize" in the mail.

Also be midful of the packaging. Underarmour, often doesn't make it to the recipient because the packaging is covered with Underarmour labels. Same applies to other companies peddling their wares.

If it runs on batteries "AA" is best.

Binoculars are also very useful.

 

[keano44]

I support your efforts, El Rojo.
My best friend is in Baghdad, Iraq right now. He is an Army Infantry Major. When he asked me to find him a set of Crimson Trace Laser grips for his issue Berretta 9mm, you can bet I did. He has them on his pistol now, and is very happy with them.

 

[richyoung]

Yes, Lone Gunman, I do...

Put this under your thinking cap -
1. We KNOW Sadaam had chemical weapons - he used them on the Iranian army, the Kurds in his own country, and a cheical shell was detonated in Iraq as an IED.
2. We also so that this same guy tried to shoot down U.S. planes, apparently held a POW long after the war in defiance of the agreements he signed, tried to assasinate a former POTUS, invaded two neighboring countries, was killing 5000 of his own people a MONTH to stay in power, (and hiding the bodies in mass graves), was trying like all get out to build a nuke or buy one from either the former Soviet Union or North Korea.

3. To top it off, known terrorists were allowed to enter his country and operate - something that I assure you did not occure without his knowledge and approval.

4. Plus there are those mysterious truck shipments from known WMD developement facilities across the border to Syria shortly before the shooting started.

GIVEN the above -


Picture a couple of railroad or semi tankers full of VX, or Sarin, or just plain old phosgene, (easy to make) emptied upwind from a major metropolis, possibly in more than one location at a time. (Or a dirty bomb- whatever...)

Its not like you couldn't get it across the border, or put it in a shipping container.

9/11 would be TINY in comparison - THATS the connection. Or to turn your argument around, what did Bosnia or Somolia ever do to us?

 

[dave3006]

El Rojo, the soldier is not serving our country. He is excuting a flawed political strategy by an ignorant President and group of advisors. Iraq was never a threat to us and the reasons they stated for this war have been proven to be a lie. Just because they send the troops somewhere, doesn't mean they are fighting for our country. They are being used.

Chemical weapons? You have got to be joking. If we invaded everyone with chemical weapons, we would have to take on half the world. WMD is an "assault weapon" type of word. It is meant to instill fear in the ignorant to achieve political victories.

Saddam was a bad guy. But, we will go broke invading every country with a bad guy. He is not worth $10B/month.