Can you shoot steel shot through a 1958 fox model B
I presume you can, but its worth a discussion. .
its not like a twisted steel barrel of old..
I presume you can, but its worth a discussion. .
its not like a twisted steel barrel of old..
Can you shoot steel shot through a 1958 fox model B
- Thread starter snowdosa
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Guns OK for steel are so marked. Since that didn't happen until the 1980's, I doubt it. Older barrels have a tendency to bulge or burst when steel is fired through them since it does not compress like lead
chas08
Member
People are quick to tell you no because they read it somewhere, or seen a bulged barrel thirty years ago. The truth is, you probably can with todays modern loads and far superior shotcups.
Scuff throughs on todays steel shotcups are almost non existant. So if the compresibility is built into the shotcup, why worry about the compressibility of the shot.
I shoot a lot of steel. I shoot it in a Remington 31 made in 1937, a Model12 made in 1962, an Ithaca 37 made in 1957 and I have a duck hunting buddy who has been running it through a Stevens 311 for years. I have no experience with a Savage Fox B.
The thing that all these guns have in common are a decent barrel thickness and no choke restriction tighter than modified. The 311 is I/C & Mod. I wouldn't shoot it through a full choke.
Another few rules I follow are; I stay away from the hyper velocity rounds. I stick with a good quality load in the 1300-1350 fps range. I avoid ammo made outside the U.S.
I wouldn't shoot it through a Belgian Browning or a treasured family heirloom. Why risk it?
I'm not advocating that you do it . I am saying that I've done it with guns that were made long before steel came along, with no issues whatsoever. The decision is ultimately yours.
Scuff throughs on todays steel shotcups are almost non existant. So if the compresibility is built into the shotcup, why worry about the compressibility of the shot.
I shoot a lot of steel. I shoot it in a Remington 31 made in 1937, a Model12 made in 1962, an Ithaca 37 made in 1957 and I have a duck hunting buddy who has been running it through a Stevens 311 for years. I have no experience with a Savage Fox B.
The thing that all these guns have in common are a decent barrel thickness and no choke restriction tighter than modified. The 311 is I/C & Mod. I wouldn't shoot it through a full choke.
Another few rules I follow are; I stay away from the hyper velocity rounds. I stick with a good quality load in the 1300-1350 fps range. I avoid ammo made outside the U.S.
I wouldn't shoot it through a Belgian Browning or a treasured family heirloom. Why risk it?
I'm not advocating that you do it . I am saying that I've done it with guns that were made long before steel came along, with no issues whatsoever. The decision is ultimately yours.
Which is what a lot of the older guns were choked, hence my comment about barrel bulges.
If it is just an old gun with no sentimental value, you can try it -if it doesn't work, you should still have most of your fingers....
, but you won't have ruined a family heirloomAnother thing is, if you get a bulged choke from steel shot on a single barrel gun, it just looks bad.
If you get it on an older S/S, it can separate the barrel spacers & rib solder joints and completely ruin the gun.
rc
If you get it on an older S/S, it can separate the barrel spacers & rib solder joints and completely ruin the gun.
rc
"its not like a twisted steel barrel of old.. "
No, but the odds are that a gun from the '50s is choked Mod and Full. If you do shoot steel or Hevi-Shot or other hard pellet that won't compress like lead, use the smallest size shot you possibly can. Small pellets flow through the constriction better than the large ones.
People get away with doing all sorts of stuff sometimes, but it doesn't make it the right way of doing things. I try not to stand too close to people shooting steel in old guns.
John
No, but the odds are that a gun from the '50s is choked Mod and Full. If you do shoot steel or Hevi-Shot or other hard pellet that won't compress like lead, use the smallest size shot you possibly can. Small pellets flow through the constriction better than the large ones.
People get away with doing all sorts of stuff sometimes, but it doesn't make it the right way of doing things. I try not to stand too close to people shooting steel in old guns.
John
The Fox Model B I have was my father's. I wouldn't shoot steel in it, out of an abundance of caution. If anyone wants to call that an overabundance of caution, it won't hurt my tender wittle feewings...
Value of a Fox Model B, about 500-600 bucks
You wreck the barrels gun is worth exactly nothing except for parts value, about 50 if lucky
Mossberg 500 pumpgun used with a steel choke tube installed, about 175-200
Ballel splits buy another for !75 on sale or scrap gun
Really, which would you considert the gun you would want to shoot steel shot through?!
You wreck the barrels gun is worth exactly nothing except for parts value, about 50 if lucky
Mossberg 500 pumpgun used with a steel choke tube installed, about 175-200
Ballel splits buy another for !75 on sale or scrap gun
Really, which would you considert the gun you would want to shoot steel shot through?!
chas08
Member
The SAAMI spec's for shotshells were developed as a standard for the ammunition industry to go by for the safe maufacture of ammunition for use in nitro-proof barrels.
Here's a link; http://www.sportsmensclubofcliftonpark.org/docs/shotshell_pressures.pdf
Barrels are tested beyond the pressure limits established by SAMMI and are proof marked.
The ammo I shoot in mine are 10,500 psi loads the SAMMI spec is 11,500. An overpressure is not likely to occur unless the shot column meets a restriction in the barrel.
The choke is a restriction. The more open the choke, the less restriction you have.
I fail to see the logic of "just because you've gotten away with it, Doesn't mean you should do it" I feel, based on hands on experience, that if you are going to have a problem, it's going to present itself quite quickly, and that is a possibility you should always keep in mind. Also as a point, I too own guns that I won't shoot steel in.
I said in the earlier post, the decision is totally yours and and shouldn't be approached without careful consideration. There is no definitive yes or no answer. Many problems with early steel no longer exist. Some are still there.
And if it makes your hunting buddies feel better, have 'em hide behind something for the first few rounds.
Here's a link; http://www.sportsmensclubofcliftonpark.org/docs/shotshell_pressures.pdf
Barrels are tested beyond the pressure limits established by SAMMI and are proof marked.
The ammo I shoot in mine are 10,500 psi loads the SAMMI spec is 11,500. An overpressure is not likely to occur unless the shot column meets a restriction in the barrel.
The choke is a restriction. The more open the choke, the less restriction you have.
I fail to see the logic of "just because you've gotten away with it, Doesn't mean you should do it" I feel, based on hands on experience, that if you are going to have a problem, it's going to present itself quite quickly, and that is a possibility you should always keep in mind. Also as a point, I too own guns that I won't shoot steel in.
I said in the earlier post, the decision is totally yours and and shouldn't be approached without careful consideration. There is no definitive yes or no answer. Many problems with early steel no longer exist. Some are still there.
And if it makes your hunting buddies feel better, have 'em hide behind something for the first few rounds.
This is interesting. I always assume w/o any detailed knowledge that steel shot would only peen the choke out at the barrel's end. But it also seems that there could be damage at the forcing cone. Are the ever any bulges lower down in the barrel from firing steel shot?
No.
Early on when steel was first introduced, barrel scoring from poor wad design was fairly common in older guns with softer barrels.
Other then that, choke peening is it.
rc
Early on when steel was first introduced, barrel scoring from poor wad design was fairly common in older guns with softer barrels.
Other then that, choke peening is it.
rc
chas08
Member
I've never seen it anywhere but at the end of the barrel, where the choke starts, not at the muzzle end.
I started examining shotcups from steel loads a few years ago when picking up decoys. Over the years I have discovered that with #2 and smaller, scuff throughs are all but non existant. In BB and larger, they are more common. Early shotcups,with any size shot, looked like a collander they had so many scuff throughs.
I did have some RIO #3 steel a few years ago that was bad to scuff through. In fact I would ocassionally pick up a used one that still had pellets imbedded in the shotcup bottom. I've never seen that with Federal, Remington, or Winchester.
Wow what a great thread im glad i asked.
Compresability, Steel will compress little if at all under these pressures. how much does lead compress in contrast? What im getting at is, if steel is 100% for non-compressability and damaging to barrels, then where would lead shot be at? percent wise? How much more forgiving it lead than steel.. is another wya to put it.
Compresability, Steel will compress little if at all under these pressures. how much does lead compress in contrast? What im getting at is, if steel is 100% for non-compressability and damaging to barrels, then where would lead shot be at? percent wise? How much more forgiving it lead than steel.. is another wya to put it.
I don't know what the percent is.
But compress isn't exactly the right word.
Lead shot is soft and malleable.
It can deform to fit closer together in the shot column and come out octagon pellets fitted closer together instead of round pellets staying further apart if it has too.
Steel shot is round, and always is gonna stay round in the shot column, no matter what the choke tries to do to it.
rc
But compress isn't exactly the right word.
Lead shot is soft and malleable.
It can deform to fit closer together in the shot column and come out octagon pellets fitted closer together instead of round pellets staying further apart if it has too.
Steel shot is round, and always is gonna stay round in the shot column, no matter what the choke tries to do to it.
rc
I recently bought a Stevens 315, 2 3/4" 12 gauge, 30" barrels with full & full. I'll put lead through it for chasing small or upland game or for clay. When duck season comes around, I'll grit my teeth and pay the major money for safe non-steel non-toxic that won't harm the barrels. There are a number of types out there and they all cost more than I'd like. But that's the cost of taking an old school double gun out so I pay it.
I'm thinking this http://www.niceshotinc.com/ right now. $3 a shot is expensive, but really how many shots do I need to fill a legal limit of duck?
I'm thinking this http://www.niceshotinc.com/ right now. $3 a shot is expensive, but really how many shots do I need to fill a legal limit of duck?
chas08
Member
Money well spent, especially since it's full choked. I use Kent Impact and the new Hevi-Shot Duck, both work well. The new Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles boasts "Safe for Nitro-proof barrels" Its cheaper than the Kent ($3 vs $4 per shot) but the Kent patterns more like lead and I prefer it. Macks Prairie wings had the best prices this past season, of those I researched. I bought a hundred rounds of the Hevi-shot and with the rebate it got the price per shot down under $3. It patterns tighter than the Kent in my guns.
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chas08
Member
Just be aware that all Hevi-Shot is not intended for use in older double guns. There are different recipes, so to speak.
I did notice a few variations at their web site. The Classic Doubles in the game appropriate shot size would seem to be what I should look for? For duck, I just jump shoot some creeks near where I live since I don't have a dog. It's short range stuff so the #4 should do alright for me. I should probably buy some #6 for small game on some of the public lands here that require non-toxic too.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
chas08
Member
snowdosa;
I sent you a pm with a website that I just bought some ammo from for the guns I don't shoot steel in. Good hunting...chas
I sent you a pm with a website that I just bought some ammo from for the guns I don't shoot steel in. Good hunting...chas
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