Can't decide PTR91F or RRA LAR8 A4

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Lone Ranger

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I need some input from those with experience with the PTR or the LAR8. Price is not a factor. I like the idea that the RRA takes metric or in magazines. Serviceability and parts are considerations, as well as customer service. What are the pros and cons of each? I found a PTR for $999 and a LAR8 for $1099, I think those are good prices. Thanks in advance.
 
I used to own a PTR-91. I have little good to say about them. Mine worked, at least. Ergonomics were inferior to an AK-47, and it kinda went downhill from there.

The LAR-8 is probably a good rifle, but I consider the use of FAL mags to now be a drawback as there are no longer as cheap or common as they were a few years ago, and it also is a slightly different pattern than what seems to be becoming the dominant .308 AR platform, the DPMS/Knight's pattern. I would suggest you look at the DPMS options, the upcoming Bushmaster that will be on the DPMS pattern (different from the older Bushmaster BAR-10 that was the same rifle as the RRA LAR-8 you're looking at), and if price is truly no issue, the POF-308. I would also consider the Armalite (brand) AR-10, which although not now the dominant pattern in .308, is definitely a high quality rifle, and I believe will have more support and accessory options than the Rock River.

Finally, if you would consider any other options, I would also seriously consider a quality FN-FAL. They are nice. But I am trying to focus on the narrow question you asked.
 
The AR platform might be lighter, depending on configuration, and will be more ergonomic.

I have a PTR-91 and it's a heavy beast. Yes, it works every time I pull the trigger; yes, mags are cheap; yes, it's hard on brass; yes, it's accurate with irons; yes, it's very front heavy; yes, it's harder/not as ideal to mount optics on; and no, I don't want to pack it around any distance. BUT it's potentially the cheapest, quality .308 "battle rifle" you can get ($900-1100).

I also have an AR-10, it is also a heavy beast but that's because of the configuration I wanted and built. Yes, it recoils less than a PTR-91; no, it's not as ammo sensitive function wise (heavy match loads here); yes, it's ergonomic; yes, it can shave a hair on a fly's ass at 100yds; yes, it's very optics friendly; and yes, it was very expensive.

That's my experience with the two. I'd highly recommend the AR platform over the 91 for your only .308. That said I wouldn't recommend the RRA LAR-8 because like it's father, the Bushmaster BAR-10, it's a compromise to use FAL mags; which no longer is a plus, the AWB is dead. DPMS is really looking good and face it, SR-25/orginal AR-10 pattern mags are the future of .308 ARs. DPMS also has configurations from budget, to "battle rifle," to precission rigs. The current Bushmasters and Remingtons are rebadged DPMS with added features like chrome lined barrels for Bushy and Mossy Oak camo for Remington. Armalites are nicer, IMO, rifles but they are stuck with their proprietary mags; but at least their current mag pattern was fitted to the rifle instead of the other way around.

ETA: servicing: you can build an .308 AR pattern rifle in about 10 minutes (assuming proper barrel nut wrench and action block) and buy every part individually, stock or aftermarket, for it and customize it to what ever you want. They are not standardized like AR-15s but the parts are available and reasonably priced.

You can buy HK parts for a PTR but you should beware of 922R. I find them more expensive and more difficult to work on.

I can't commit on customer service because I haven't had to use any of them.
 
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BUT it's potentially the cheapest, quality .308 "battle rifle" you can get ($900-1100).
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Just to note: The DSA STG-58 rifle is now regularly available for under $1100, from AIM and Atlantic Firearms among others. That is a US-assembled FAL on a US receiver and with a US barrel; most little parts are military surplus. In parts count it is highly comparable to a PTR-91, which also uses a mix of US and surplus parts. Having owned both I would choose the STG-58 about 10,000:1 over the PTR-91.
 
ZMichigan and I differ greatly concerning our choices between the FAL and the PTR91.

I have the PTR and have been highly satisfied with the rifle. Even so, if I were looking for a new rifle today I would have to accept that PTR91, Inc. has started manufacturing their own bolt heads and other internal parts which seem to be less durable than German G3 parts which they put in my rifle built several years ago.

I would get an AR10, not sure which one, but one which uses common and less expensive magazines were I to go out looking for a shell shucker 308 today.
 
I'd recommend the RRA LAR-8. I have one and have put quite a few hundreds of rounds through it and its been a champ.
I HIGHLY recommend it.
 
How about some love for the PTR 91! I have owned both an AR10 (armalite) and still own a PTR 91. The ergonomics are a matter of opinion. Its relatively easy to scope and as accurate with the heavy target barrel. The newer models are picky when it comes to shooting surplus ammo. The recoil on my PTR 91 is no worse then the AR10 I owned. Its also fun to shoot.

Besides DPMS 308s are kind of ugly!
 
quick PTR-related question: the chamber specs label it as "7.62 NATO". Yet, people seem to shoot .308 through it just fine.

Kinda confusing...I thought that, unlike how it works with .223 v. 5.56 NATO, that shooting .308 in a 7.62 chamber is a bad idea. Unless, that is, that it is simply labeled as such but is chambered for .308?

I've noticed the same thing with some ads for STG-58s DSA rifles. Are they good for .308 or not?
 
Although .308 Win and 7.62 NATO are two different cartridges, the difference between them is smaller than that between .223 and 5.56 NATO, and is reversed in that .308 is more powerful and higher pressure than 7.62 NATO. Most rifles chambered for one of 308/7.62 are fine with the other (the CETME being a possible exception) even though that is not equally true with .223 Rem chambered rifles.

I am not positive that a PTR is safe with .308, but I shot .308 out of mine with no problems. I am 99.9% sure that the DSA STG-58 is absolutely fine with either one.
 
PTR's website even says only use commercial .308 in it. They have a list of surplus 7.62 and the numerous reasons it won't function in their guns, but from reading around other places online, most people say that it's because the flutes aren't cut deep enough, and PTR would rather just blame the ammo instead of admitting they screwed up. If you send the gun in for repair and it ends up being because you were using surplus ammo, they'll charge you for it too.

Unfortunately, I spent $500 on surplus military ammo for a gun that's suppose to be a clone of a military rifle, only to find out that it turns my PTR into a really expensive single shot (using south african surplus).

I know nothing of the LAR8, but personally, I wouldn't recommend a PTR to anyone, unless they already had several other battle rifles and wanted something different.

Mine's accurate enough, and is reliable with commercial ammo, but the ergos suck, it's super heavy, super awkward, throws the brass so far you can't hardly find them (although they're too mangled to reload even if you do find them), it kicks really hard for just being a .308, parts are expensive if you want to trick it out, and it's just not worth the money when there's other .308 battle rifles with less issues in the same price range.

Having said all that though, I'm still throwing money away on mine. I just got a bayonet and adapter for it, and I plan on getting a trigger job, a different muzzle brake, and possibly a different buttstock as well.

If I had it to do again though, I would've bought a FAL.

PTRs do look cool though. That's undeniable.

Oh, and another reason not to buy a PTR, is that people who own real HKs will look down their nose at you for having a clone.
 
Unfortunately, I spent $500 on surplus military ammo for a gun that's suppose to be a clone of a military rifle, only to find out that it turns my PTR into a really expensive single shot (using south african surplus).
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My M1A digests surplus like it's new commercial ammo. Haven't tried surplus in the FAL yet but I expect the same result.

The G3/HK91/PTR91 design is very sensitive to the exact type and hardness of the case material and the pressure. Gas operated designs (as well as recoil operated designs, rare in rifles) are not.

FWIW, my PTR was 100% happy with steel-cased Brown Bear. If I still owned one that's what I would run all the time. It's the cheapest .308 on the market by far.

Mine's accurate enough, and is reliable with commercial ammo, but the ergos suck, it's super heavy, super awkward, throws the brass so far you can't hardly find them (although they're too mangled to reload even if you do find them), it kicks really hard for just being a .308, parts are expensive if you want to trick it out, and it's just not worth the money when there's other .308 battle rifles with less issues in the same price range.

If I had it to do again though, I would've bought a FAL.
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I could have written the same review on mine, except mine wasn't accurate either, and I never tried to buy any parts. At least mags are dirt cheap.

I sold it long before I got an FAL. There is no comparison, IMHO. (I realize I'm belaboring my point.)

Oh, and another reason not to buy a PTR, is that people who own real HKs will look down their nose at you for having a clone.
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That's an even better reason to get an FAL. Then you can tell the HK guys that it is the exact gun (G1) that H&K would have made, if they had been allowed to make it by FN.
 
Again, OC's original choices were the PTR91 or a RRA.

Between these two I'd choose the RRA.

I would NOT choose a FAL. It is more personal experience than anything else, but I had a FN G1 pre dealer sample. Beautiful rifle. Just clumsy, hard to clean, trigger hurt my finger, sights were crude, and the fore end got so hot after a mag dump that you couldn't hold it anymore. Going from "safe" to "automatic" required a thumb as long as ET's fingers, and you had to rotate your hand around the grip to accomplish it. It was near impossible to scope properly.

Between the FAL and the G3 (or clone in this case, such as the PTR91) the G3 clone would be the better rifle.
 
Again, OC's original choices were the PTR91 or a RRA.

Between these two I'd choose the RRA.
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True on the OP, and I too would choose the RRA on those two choices. I was responding to the major thread veer which was not entirely of my own making.

I would NOT choose a FAL. It is more personal experience than anything else, but I had a FN G1 pre dealer sample. Beautiful rifle. Just clumsy, hard to clean, trigger hurt my finger, sights were crude, and the fore end got so hot after a mag dump that you couldn't hold it anymore. Going from "safe" to "automatic" required a thumb as long as ET's fingers, and you had to rotate your hand around the grip to accomplish it. It was near impossible to scope properly.
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I think it's almost a crime to have sold a pre-86 dealer sample full auto G1. :)

Anyway, just a few comments for the benefit of future readers:
-all of the .308 battle rifles with full auto were incapable of sustained auto fire (with the M14 being perhaps the worst). Sustained auto fire with a .308 really requires a 15-20lb rifle. So I'm not surprised it got painfully hot after a mag dump. FWIW AK-47 forends also get painfully hot after a mag dump, and catch fire after a couple dumps in rapid succession.
-hard to clean - I guess each person varies, but I find an FAL easier to clean than any other semiauto rifle I've ever handled. Easier than an AR-15 or AK, far easier than an M1A, G3, etc.
-sights - although certainly below M14 sights, I find them comparable to G3 sights. Matter of opinion I guess.
-safe to auto - a feature of the full auto FAL. US market civilian FALs have about a 30-degree throw to go from safe to semi, which is fairly similar to a 1911 and a shorter throw than on an AR-15.
-scope - there are now scope mounts (DSA's in particular) that make scoping an FAL really easy and secure, almost as good as an AR flattop. Though I tend to prefer the FAL without a scope anyway, given how the buttstock drop and comb was designed in relation to the sights.
 
I've shot many Kalashnikovs on automatic, and they do get hot, but it takes a lot to make the fore end to where you can't hold it. At least 3 magazines in rapid succession.

The G1 had a pressed steel fore end which was ungodly hot after 20 rounds.
 
I'm very pleased with my LAR-8. I changed from an A-4 to an A-2 stock for use with a scope. Very comforable .308 to shoot. Accurate, uses an mag I have put in it
 
Thanks to everyone for their input. I purchased the RRA LAR-8 A4. The newbie is expected to arrive next week.
 
After reading this thread last week I put my ptr-91 up for sale and bought an ar-10. I didn't really care for the ptr.

I'm really liking the AR-10. Thanks ArmaLite!
 
I owned a PTR. I sold it because it destroyed brass and I wanted to start reloading. I know you can reload brass for the rifle, but after looking at the mangled cases and what seemed like cratered primers, I wondered if I should. All in all, the rifle had some nice merits, but for what they get for them now, I would probably try and find a used M1A, or save my money and purchase a new one from Springfield. I didn't mention the LAR-8 because I don't have any experence with them.
 
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