can't...stop...aiming...AARRRGG!!

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BamBam-31

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Went trap and skeet shooting for the first time with Beetle Bailey and Black Majik Saturday. We won't mention the skeet round :)o ), but at the trap range, they were shooting twenty-somethings outta twenty-five, while I toiled to a 16/25. Can't stop focusing on my front sight, can't stop aiming directly at the freakin' clay. I know I'm supposed to just point the damn thing and swing through. I know I'm supposed to focus exclusively on the clay and nothing else ("The bird IS your front sight!"). I know I'm supposed to lead it a bit (meaning shooting at the nothing in front of the bird), but I just can't do it. As soon as I mount my shotgun, I can't help but aim it like it's my Glock at a USPSA match.

Help! :banghead:
 
Are you sure you really WANT help? Remember, a jack of all trades is a master of none.

Be pretty funny if you start leading your targets in USPSA. :uhoh:
 
Are you a rifle shooter?

Not uncommon for those that shoot rifles to "aim" and be "rigid" when they shoot.
Truth is, rifle shooters have ingrained muscle memory and trained the brain, eyes, everything for rifles. Which is great! :)

Best thing is to get lessons from a seasoned shotgun shooter, that can "read" a shooter, and give quality assessment. Everything from gun fit to stance, foot position...everything.
Bonus is this person has worked with rifle shooters with the same problems.

On your own-

Get Brister's and Misseldines books.

Disciplines : Skeet or Trap - Pick one, and learn only one game.

Get a BB Gun, and remove sights.
Ping Pong balls, and just "point" and train yourself to point.
Have someone yell out "left", "right" , "center" and shoot as told to.
Have someone toss out Tennis balls, then repeat with ping pong balls.

Move it or lose it! :p
I am not speaking of moving your vehicle from a parking spot, nor I am suggesting you learn the Funky Chicken .

Move the body.

You want to be "poetry in motion"
Smooth and fluid.


Give me the beat boys and smooth my soul
I wanna get lost in your Rock&Roll...
_-Dobie Gray
 
First,put aside the rifles and handguns for the nonce.

Second, learn to focus on the target, just like a batter focusses on the ball.,

Third, take off the bead if necessary.
 
Okay, is it really necessary to put aside the pistols and rifles? I've read that it's one or the other (right now true in my case), but does it always have to be that way? Aren't there shooters out there that can do both?

When I started USPSA, another shooting buddy of mine told me to put aside my hockey gear so I could concentrate on shooting only. I couldn't--I love doing both. Right now, I'm pretty decent at both, too. I'm not looking to make the Olympics--just being proficient enough to enjoy it as a weekend warrior is my aim.

It's just frustrating when my mind tells me to do one thing, and my body does something else. When the bird flies, it's like a deafening shouting match between the two. Not aiming is SOOOO unnatural....
 
Shoot and shoot some more You will learn as it is not a fast aquired skill. Don't give up.
 
Sometimes if you're on the third station and the clay is going straight away, you CAN aim and still hit it. Reinforces a bad habit, though.
 
Got a Doctor buddy that shot rifles, lots of rifles.
Do not go up against this man with a M1 Garand, with iron sights he will beat you like a drum.
He was "ear , nose and throat" doc.

Too many years of rifle, and he wants to shoot shotguns.
Me and and another Doctor [GP]took him on.

We threatened Digital Prostate exams with a .410 barrel and that did not work...
So we literally put hands on him , as clays were tossed, and he was using a O/U with no beads.
He was doing the BBGun bit with ping pong balls too.
One of us would pull targets, the other with hands on back of shoulders.
At first, we had a lady nurse mutual friend assist with "move at the hip" and one of us move the upper body.
Heck the nurse brought out a rope, fashioned such she could "turn him".
Yes this rec'd all sorts of comments...
We were all good friends, and took any and all of this stuff in stride.
Still it is funny when his wife come out and sees this and "honey, do we need to talk?" :p

In 30 days we had him shooting 20/25. Just less than 45 days he ran his first straight, and we shot his hat.
Around 75 days he ran 100/100.

He won his first tourney and took E class- and he quickly moved up to B Class.
WE told him to stop at B class, the fun starts giving way to not being fun, or a hobby.

He went on to AA, then later stopped competition, and got into 5 Stand and Sporting Clays for fun.
He understood taking this stuff too serious.
He can still run a 100 straight, he shoots for fun , hunts and all.
Rifles, same deal, he was serious, and when he "backed down" and quit taking it so serious, his shooting improved.
He shared he should have applied his rifle experience to skeet/shotguns, just has no reason as to why he did not.
"Perhaps the human being is just wired such" he says.

Defensive handguns, oh he is serious, just when he went , he went in with a different perspective - not to take himself serious, he was not a big deal, and would always be learning.

Aside-

His wife was a shotgunner, I mean super with a shotgun!
She said she would not give her husband shotgun lessons.
That is why she contacted me and this other doctor buddy - Guys instructing guys, and "spouses do not teach spouses".

She learned Rifles from some lady rifle shooters they knew - for the same reason.
Ladies instructing ladies - again spouses not teaching spouses.
 
:D

Larry and his wife Sandy are both accomplished and experienced shooters.
They both had lots of trigger time with handguns and rifles.
Larry had Shotgun experience.

Where on earth that boy got the itch for a 28 ga shotgun is beyond me...
Sandy shared "shotguns are Larry's thing , you boys have fun, but shotguns are just something I am not into".

Sandy stole Larry's new to him 28 gauge shotgun.
Larry, has to find another 28 ga shotgun, which he does, and Sandy steals that one, and lets him have his first 28 ga shotgun back.

Where on earth Larry & Sandy got this hair-brained idea to shoot BBguns, with sights removed is beyond me...

"Hey Steve, We are having a ball shooting BB guns! We even have some ping-pong balls.
Larry really should be reloading me some more 28 ga shells, but he comes in handy loading BBs, and getting ping-pong balls out of blister packs..."

"Humm Sandy, are you not supposed to be making Salsa, instead of playing with BB guns?" I asked

"Shut up and leave me alone, Larry just filled my BB gun back up, and new ping-pongs are on the ground needing to be shot".

*click*

I really worry about some of the folks Larry & Sandy call friends...

;)
 
I dropped my gun and it landed on the front sight. Broke that plastic globe right off so there was a steel post sticking up. I tried to unscrew it but it just twisted off. Damn! Now I had to slowly and carefully file it down to the rib without affecting anything else. I figured that I would then have a new hole drilled, tapped, and a sight put in. But I wanted to shoot. Best accident I ever had. It raised my average score by 5 birds at skeet. I am usually now just 2 or 3 birds shy of a straight. I had been looking at the front sight too much and not at the bird. No front sight so nothing else to look at but the bird. So long as your shotgun fits, it works well that way. For now, I'm leaving it alone and using it sans bead. It also answered the question as to why I did better with certain of my shotguns. When I look, I do the best with the ones with a tiny front bead. The ones with a glow worm type sight are ones I normally avoid when I want to do my best. I may like the way they feel and look but I subconsconciously seem to fixate on that front sight.
 
In deferrence to some of the other trapshooters here, I do use the front bead on my on my trapgun. It gives me a good idea how much lead to crank in. From station 1 at the 16yd line and a clay coming out to the extreme left, a 3' lead is usually about right. From one of the handicap lines, the lead may be more like 5'. It's all a matter of practice, but no, you almost never aim directly at the clay.

If you're already shooting 16/25, I'd say you're off to a good start! :)
 
I was a Master class USPSA shooter (pre GrandMaster days) and started shooting Sporting Clays. Talk about a lesson in humility...... I went from being one of the best; to women and children beating me. Found I was hopelessly "rifle" shooting. What helped me: shot (exclusively) Clays and got instruction. Had stock bent so shotgun fit. Removed bead from barrel for a time. Bought a tape ("Move, mount, shoot" by John Bidwell) that was quite helpful. I practiced mounting shotgun, swinging through a line at the ceiling/wall juncture and "dry firing". After a few months I was no longer scraping the bottom in regards to score. I do understand your frustration. I guess you'll get out of it what your willing to put in it. Good luck.
 
Yeah, I'm a pretty decent pistol shooter (not Master class by a longshot :p ), so shotgunning was definitely a lesson in humility. I'm thinking of taking the small fiber optic sight off my Beretta next time out (and installing the M choke instead of the IC). Guess it's time to do some mounts and swings in the garage, eh?

16/25 sounds better here than at the range, that's for sure. I swear I could hear the ol' range rats' heads shaking with each miss. After our last round of trap, the conversation went something like this:

Beetle Bailey: I was down three.

Black Majik: Yeah, I missed three as well.

Me: Right on...still in the single digits, man.... :p

I think this is one of those things where I'm just out-thinking myself. Prolly just have to jump in the deep end and do it til it clicks. Will most likely keep it trap, as skeet was damn near impossible for all of us.

I'd like to try the BB gun thing, but wont the BB's start piling up in the backyard? My wife would kill me if a riccochet hit glass....:eek:
 
Beetle Bailey: I was down three.

Black Majik: Yeah, I missed three as well.

Me: Right on...still in the single digits, man....

Wow. You mean the 16 for 25 was typical of all your rounds? I just figured you were getting tired and so your score suffered. Well, remember you are only trying to outdo yourself and no one else. Besides, if those were real birds, you'd have gotten enough to feed your family. Black Majik has been doing this for a while and I think I just had beginner's luck, since I'm not even sure what I'm doing right.

The only thing I can think of is, I left my rifle shooting knowledge at home in the safe with my rifles and came out relaxed. Oh, and my Wingmaster loves me :what: :eek: :D
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure that last one was the worst score of the day, but the earlier rounds weren't much better. I think I prolly averaged 7-8 misses per round that day. :(

Well, gotta start somewhere, eh? I'll be in the twenties soon enough! ;)
 
BamBam,
If you guys come out to the range on the 15th and I can make it I'll bring my Benelli S90M3. It forces you to not use the sights as it has ghost rings, funny thing about it is some people say they find it easier to use.:uhoh:
 
2/25 was my first score shooting Skeet.

The gun did not fit, I did not have the correct basic fundamentals, and the more I shot that gun, the worse things got, the more I hurt and the faster I wanted to finish the round of 25 shells.

I was about so high, the Earth was still flat, and I had been shooting rim-fire competition, and center-fire rifle competition using a "kid sized' model 70 in '06 with "kid sized" loads.

Iron sights and I was doing great for my size and even beating bigger kids.
Gunny ( one of many I called "Gunny") would set out plugs from breaker boxes, golf balls - whatever and I could hit them from different rifle positions, and distances.
The Model 70 and standing took lots of doing for me , not being any bigger than I was to stand and shoot.
Kneeling, was, and still is my best shooting position with a rifle.

Shotguns:

Mentors "reminded me" I knew and and had been taught all the correct things, about shotguns, and when I hunted with one, I did well.
That shotgun did not have any beads btw...
One - I used a shotgun that fit me, and two, I was not thinking, instead letting my natural self take over.

I strolled out, grabbed gun that did not fit that day, and my Mentors did not say a word.
They knew what was going to happen, and it did.

"You really want to do shotguns and not do the rifle , then shut up, pay attention and remember the early lessons.
We are going back to square one, and starting all over.
After you heal up from them bruises, being sore and all..."

Gunny, understood, in fact he too was one that could shoot anything, really well.
"You know, I chew butt pretty good if I do say so myself, what I did for a living you understand, these Mentors are doing a great job, heck I might have to come out and chew on your skinny butt some with this shotgun bit- I sorta miss doing that..."

I had great Mentors & Elders, ladies and gents. They really cared about me, and others they assisted with.

The day I shot my first straight, was a big deal. Then 50, 75, 100.
The day I out shot a Mentor, was...a shock!
I out shot Gunny one day- and that old fart, opened the action of his shotgun, held it over his head and ran circles in the skeet field - then he tossed his hat and said for me to shoot it.
"You miss, I am going to kick your skinny butt".
I did not miss! :p


I would go hang out at the rifle / pistol range, where Gunny and others were assisting new folks. I would be offered to go the end of the line, where Gunny often shot, when he shot. Special place if you will.
"You want to shoot, use my .22" and he would let me use his gun and give me a box of shells.
"You going prone?"
"No sir, I always do my foot wrong, and you kick my foot and move me around, I will do kneeling for starters".
He laughed.

Rabbit season was on, and he had the kids , others gathered talking about something while I shot by myself.

Rabbit shot out of the brush, on this overcast day "Young'un! Tag 'em!
Running rabbit , me kneeling and I popped the rabbit in the head.

"Now, you folks pay attention, get the correct basics down, shoot a lot of quality practice and someday you too can do this"

Gunny holding the rabbit to show and make his point.
Then he cleaned the rabbit to show the kids how...he winked at me, and had that grin I knew meant he was not as grumpy a old fart as some thought.

Dove season approaching, Gunny was doing more shotgun stuff, often times I just pulled for him and did not shoot.
"Raised your head sir" I said once to him when he missed.
"Don't have to call me sir, you know that, I appreciate the respect, but around me and our kind, just don't.
Raised my head you said, you are probably right, pull it again, and watch me if you will".

:)
 
50shooter said:
BamBam,
If you guys come out to the range on the 15th and I can make it I'll bring my Benelli S90M3. It forces you to not use the sights as it has ghost rings, funny thing about it is some people say they find it easier to use.

That's not even fair shawn. I remember shooting better with your short barrel M3 w/ GR sights than I did with my Wingmaster w/ 28" VR on our informal clay shooting :D
 
There are three types of lead used when shotgun shooting. One is sustained lead where throughout the course of the targets flight you hold in front of it the whole time while you slap the trigger. Another is I think called a pass through, where you start tracking from behind the target and swing through it as though painting it out of the sky. The third is to track the target, spot on and then pull ahead just before hitting the trigger. Don't look at the bead. The gun must fit, (shoot where you look). Think of throwing a football to someone on a crossing pattern. You don't aim, just let your brain figure the lead. (on crossing shots it's hard to lead to much) Good luck!!
 
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