cap sizes

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Im283

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CCI Nos. 10 & 11 and Remington Nos. 10 & 11
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Not wanting to be a thread hijacker I started a new thread.

the post I stole this from suggested that these would equate to four different size caps.

Can someone explain it better? Maybe lay them out from smallest to largest.

I am using CCI #10 caps and they fit tight but seem just a hair small. CCI #11 have to be pinched to stay in place.
 
Well, all I know is that with my stuff, the Remington # 10 and the Remington # 11 caps fit good. I'vd never shot any kind of percussion cap in my life except for Remington. Don't recognize any other kind. As long as I'vd got the right sized cap for the particular piece I'm good to go. I never have to force a cap to get it on or pinch a cap to make it stay on. So I figure if it isn't broken then there's no need to try to fix it.
What was that Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn used to say? "leave blame well enough alone"....
 
Good question. I didn't do that in the original thread because I don't know the answer for sure. I think it's like this, smallest to largest:

Rem 10
CCI 10
Rem 11
CCI 11

I know that 10's are smaller than 11's. I think Rems are smaller than CCis. Maybe. The difference between the Rem 10 and CCI 10 is very small; likewise the difference between the Rem 11 and CCI 11.

I base the above on my recollections of comments made by posters on this and three other forums as to what caps fit better on various guns. Three faults with a conclusion made from such data, however: 1) my memory has demonstrated blank spots, 2) nipple size is a significant factor and we have no idea what nipples were used, and 3) I have no idea if the posters have any ability to accurately describe their experiences.

I believe I have examples of all 4 caps. If I get a chance I'm going to try to measure them, although my tool set for such an exercise is severely limited. I'll let you know what happens in the next few days.
 
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This comes up often, so I just post this little paragraph that I saved. It might be useful, might not be. Anyways:
From an old Colt Industries pamphlet:
"Percussion caps are now made in sizes from nine to thirteen. Ten and eleven are the best numbers for the small and medium-sized arms, and twelve for the larger sizes, although, as different-sized nipples are sometimes met in specimens of the same model, no hard and fast rule can be given. It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples, but small ones must be driven down on the nipple by the blow of the hammer, and this process frequently cushions the blow to the extent of producing a misfire."
 
Mykeal, I've been wondering about cap dif. too. On my Pietta 1860, the CCI #10 looks like the right size cap, except they're too deep. The base of the cap fits fine, except they're so deep that the 'rim' of the cap has to be swelled out quite a bit for it to properly seat. That's why it takes a double hammer strike to set them off. Does that make any sense? Basically, I think that if CCI's weren't so deep they'd be perfect. Since I don't have Remington to compare to maybe you can set them side by side and compare the depth?
Did this make any sense at all?
 
On my pietta 1858s the cci 10s are a perfect fit.
From what I have researched... the remingtons have a shorter skirt on them.


Evil
 
and this process frequently cushions the blow to the extent of producing a misfire."
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This happened to me several times when using CCI #10 on the 1851. I have had no trouble with the 10's on the '58.

I think I am going to pick up a tin of Remington #11 to see if they work on the '51
 
IM283, try picking up a tin of Remington # 10's.
I didn't bother to copy down the nipple size (6 point something or the other) but anyway, the specs on the
51 call for a #10 cap. Did you buy the gun new in the box? Is there a chance you could have gotten your nipples mixed up by dis-assembling several revolvers at the same time after a day at the range?
Remington # 10's fit my '58 perfectly.
Like I said. the specifications on your '51 call for a # 10 cap also....
 
GotC, no mix of of nipples. I have had this pistol near 25 years I do not mess with pulling this nipples off of it. I think I took them off once about 5 years ago and never understood why I did it then.

I have only even seen #10 caps around here in one store and they only sell CCI

Gander Mtn had Remingtons but only had them in #11.

I wonder if maybe the nipples have mushroomed out a tad in the years I have had it.

And just to add, I hate having to pinch them 11's down to make 'em stay on, it makes my fingers hurt.
 
IM283..I just talked to Cabela's and they have Remington # 10's in stock, $46.99 for 1000 caps. (you get 10 packs of 100 each)1-800-237-4444....
I think (I know) there will be a $20.00 hazardous shipping fee added to that....
It is very possible that the nipples have mushroomed after that length of time. As a matter of fact I would bet on it. Therefore the problem is probably not the caps. It is the nipples.
Spend 10 or 15 dollars with Cabela's and get you a new set of nipples made to fire #10 caps.
You can probably keep on firing your CCI #10 caps with no problem if you change out the nipples.
I know what a lot of people on here say but on here you have to read between the lines. Pinching caps to make them stay on the nipple is inherently dangerous. The cap could inadvertently explode for some reason while you're pinching it and blow pieces of debris into your fingers or hand.
You can also very easily end up with a chain-fire and I'm telling you right now that I KNOW you don't want one of those.
IM283, change your nipples and fire #10's like the specs call for. You'll have fun and be glad you did....
 
Wow.

Ok, first of all, the explosive material in the caps is sensitive to shock loads. Like impact. The caps will not fire when pinched by your fingers or when pushed onto the nipple by your thumb or a wooden dowel.

Second, we're missing a very important point that Pohill made in Post #4: the other variable in this equation is the nipple itself. It's all well and good that a given manufacturer specifies a certain size cap on his version of a given model. But believe me that doesn't apply to a different manufacturer of the same model, and may not even apply to the first manufacturer's model in a different production year.

Nipples are a crap shoot when it comes to size; not only does the diameter vary, so does the angle of the taper and the length. Take a look at the specs on Track of the Wolf's site, for instance - the ONLY thing they specify is the thread diameter and pitch. Yes, they do say No. 11 cap or musket cap, but WHOSE No. 11 cap? It matters.

I think GotC makes a good point to pull the nipples and file them to fit rather than spend $50 on a crap shoot for caps that may or may not fit. Or get new nipples, although I don't believe you can count on their size either.
 
Mr. MyKeal, I was speaking of what I refer to as a Pietta or Uberti made '51.
Now, again, I'm quoting Cabela's. I called them and talked to them before I made that post. She looked up the '51 and gave me the nipple size and told me three times that that particular nipple called for a number 10 cap.
I have had a cap explode on me while pushing it on, several years ago. I wasn't beating on the cap either. I may have been pushing a little hard. Anyway, the cap went off.
I would guess she gave me the nipple size on a Pietta. Uberti may have a different size nipple but I wouldn't think so. Why would they?
I'm just asking.
But I know that finger pinching caps is not a good idea if for no other reason than the fact that they won't be fitted to the nipple properly and will greatly enhance the chances of a chainfire. As I stated, he need's to get new nipples and the specs on the '51 that Cabela's looked up for me call for a number ten cap.
Surely if he call's to order new nipples he will give product specialists the information on his gun
and they will tell him what size nipple's that gun uses.
Also, my revolver's are all made by Pietta and Uberti (except for the little NAA)
Now, I have the specs on each one of my revolvers. I also have several extra sets of nipples for each revolver. I could sit here right now and take the nipples out of one of my '58's and pull out a new pack of the extra nipples I ordered and they will fit the '58 perfectly. I know they will because when I got the extra nipples I tried one of them to make sure it would fit. I also did the same thing with my Walker nipples which call for a number 11 cap.
I didn't have the nipples custom built for each one of my revolvers. When I ordered my nipples it went something like this: "Yeah, I need to order a few packs of nipples. Oh, it's a New Model .44....Okay, thank you buddy. I'll be looking for them"....
 
If Colt says, "It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples...", that is more than enough for me.
Different things work for different people. You have to find what works best for you and stick to it, but keep an open mind for alternatives that might work better.
I like Remington #11 caps on most of my guns (a few take #10s better and my 1849 .31 likes those #9s that I have). CCIs seem to be smaller and stiffer.
 
Now, again, I'm quoting Cabela's. I called them and talked to them before I made that post. She looked up the '51 and gave me the nipple size and told me three times that that particular nipple called for a number 10 cap.
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I understand you have an abiding faith in Cabela's product service specialists. I have absolutely no doubt they can read the book that Pietta wrote that tells you what nipple goes into your gun. However, we're not talking about what nipple fits what gun. We're talking about what caps fit what nipples. And the important dimension is not the thread diameter and pitch, it's the diameter and shape of the other end - where the cap goes - and NOBODY, Pietta and Uberti included, specifies those dimensions. And I can gaurantee you that those dimensions are different from manufacturer to manufacturer and model to model and even year to year on the same model by the same manufacturer. It's different because the gun makers don't make nipples, they buy them from the lowest cost supplier. And that can change from year to year. And they do not have an interface control specification that controls the dimensions where the cap goes like they do for the end that goes in the gun. The reason they don't is because that runs up the cost. Controlling those dimensions makes the nipple a precision machined part, and it will cost more. It's a whole lot cheaper to let it float and just pinch the caps.

I have had a cap explode on me while pushing it on, several years ago. I wasn't beating on the cap either. I may have been pushing a little hard. Anyway, the cap went off.
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Several years ago percussion caps contained fulminate of mercury and then lead azide. Both will ignite if scraped, like a match head, which is probably what happened. Caps don't use those materials any more; they're much more stable. That won't happen. Don't mind you being safe; I can certainly understand why you feel the way you do. I'd probably feel the same way if it had happened to me.
I would guess she gave me the nipple size on a Pietta. Uberti may have a different size nipple but I wouldn't think so. Why would they?
I'm just asking.
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Simple. They don't use the same nipple supplier. Why would they?

But I know that finger pinching caps is not a good idea if for no other reason than the fact that they won't be fitted to the nipple properly and will greatly enhance the chances of a chainfire.
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We agree about that. Except I'd leave out the word, 'greatly'; I can't calculate the increase, so I'd prefer to simply say it's increased.
As I stated, he need's to get new nipples and the specs on the '51 that Cabela's looked up for me call for a number ten cap.
Surely if he call's to order new nipples he will give product specialists the information on his gun
and they will tell him what size nipple's that gun uses.
Also, my revolver's are all made by Pietta and Uberti (except for the little NAA)
Now, I have the specs on each one of my revolvers. I also have several extra sets of nipples for each revolver. I could sit here right now and take the nipples out of one of my '58's and pull out a new pack of the extra nipples I ordered and they will fit the '58 perfectly. I know they will because when I got the extra nipples I tried one of them to make sure it would fit. I also did the same thing with my Walker nipples which call for a number 11 cap.
I didn't have the nipples custom built for each one of my revolvers. When I ordered my nipples it went something like this: "Yeah, I need to order a few packs of nipples. Oh, it's a New Model .44....Okay, thank you buddy. I'll be looking for them"....
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Again, we're talking about what caps fit the nipples, not what nipples fit the gun. By the way, when you get new nipples, compare the length of the new ones with the old ones. They won't be the same.
 
Well, Mr. Mykeal!! Damn boy, you've been busy! Thought you'd went to bed.
I'll give you part of that but not all of it.
Cabela's did teach me a lot, but mostly they taught me to think for myself.

The replacement nipples I ordered are exactly the same size as the ones that came in the pieces.
I checked that years ago but just checked it again a few minutes ago. Set them (a new one and one I backed out of one of my cylinders that is in the gun, also one I backed out of one of my extra cylinders) and studied them under a magnifying glass. They are all the same size. I studied them carefully and I can find absolutely no difference in like how tall they are, how fat they are, etc.
I just did my Walker the same way except I didn't back a nipple out of one of my extra Walker cylinders. Again, they were exactly the same.

I will agree that different manufacturers probably have different standard's one from the other. But I'm telling you honestly that everything I'vd got matches up and believe me I'vd got the cylinders that came in my guns, I'vd got many extra cylinders that came with nipples in them and I'vd got many many packs of nipples ready to screw into a cylinder if for some reason I should need to.
They all look the same Mr. MyKeal.

When I buy stuff, you have no idea how much I research and cross check back and forth before I actually buy it. I don't take anybody's word for anything on something like that. When I'vd got my ass stuck back in the Canadian Yukon or someplace like that it would be too late then to find out I had the wrong part. That's why when I got all my parts the first thing I did was to check and make sure they fit and were correct.

For instance, I found out that the Pietta '58 cylinder and the Uberti Cattleman's Carbine cylinder are not interchangeable. I rectified that situation sir. I bought 4 extra Carbine cylinders plus several packs of nipples made for that carbine. Already had plenty of '58 cylinders and nipples.

Mr. MyKeal, I use Remington caps. Now, I can take a nipple out of one of my 58 cylinders, Any one of them. Pull a cylinder out of one of the guns, it dosen't matter. Then I put a new nipple in that cylinder. I guarantee you that the #10 cap will fit perfectly. I know because I tried it that way to.

The best I can figure is, when ya'll get hold of some nipples that are too fat, or too skinny, or too tall, or too short, then ya'll are buying from some of these off the wall dealers that pick trash up where ever they can find it for a cut rate price.
I don't own a Uberti 1858 so I can't speak on them unless you count the carbine which I don't.

But for instance. The Pietta made Remington 1858 New Model Army .44 caliber come's equipped with nipples that are designed to fire a #10 cap. If you buy a nipple designed and manufactured by Mr. Pietta for the Pietta made Remington 1858 New Model .44 caliber then the nipple will fit perfectly and the nipple will hold a Remington #10 cap perfectly, just like the one that came in the gun when you bought it. If you buy some off the wall s*** somewhere because you think you're getting a good deal or whatever, well then...I just don't know.

You're right about the Mercury no longer being used sir. I had clean forgotten about that.

I look forward to your next post Mr. MyKeal....
 
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Sirs,

first off I did not mean to start a broo-ha-ha about nipples over a question about percussion caps. I simply wanted to know about size differences between CCI and Remington caps.

GotC I appreciate you researching nipples for me but I am not going to order new ones for the '51. The ones that came with the gun have worked for 25 years and I suspect they will work for a few more years. I am also not going to order caps 1000 at a time for near $7/100 when I can buy them local at my convenience for about $5/100. I do appreciate your advice and the time you put into your posts, really I do. I would rather put the cost of new nipples toward what I am saving to buy another different cap and ball revolver.

I am getting nervous about all the hub-ub about setting caps with my fingers.
I think I will devise a tool for this. Maybe a four or five inch piece of aquarium tubing with a 6 inch long dowl rod that will fit into the tubing. A cap will fit in the tube and the dowl rod might be the ticket for setting the cap. Use it kind of like a plunger ( if that makes sense). When I make it, and if it works I will post a pic. I think it might be simple and workable.

The supply I have the hardest time getting locally is .454 balls. There is a local primitive weapon/hunting store and they carry a lot of BP supplies but no .454 balls. Gander Mtn has a little sticker on a shelf showing they have a space for them but I have yet to see them in stock.
 
Mykeal –Earlier, in my situation, the nipples of the ’58 Remington ‘D purchased, had been a tad smashed (yet, another technical term), before my having received the revolver. However, the hammer, itself, was still in good condition.

The procedure, described in the article, which you included, was sufficient, so as to have relieved my frustration, as regards proper cap placement. Gave me the chance to fire the revolver, safely, without further worry. (Am one of those, in possession of a mini-mill, mini-lathe and desk-top drill, among others – as may be imagined.) Spared the cost of new nipples, as well. For now.

Seems that, no matter how well one researches something, there’ll always be an exception. Sometimes, the knowledge a feller has relayed will help one, whose problem might, otherwise, have fallen through the cracks.

Mine, was one such problem.

So, thank you for the inclusion of that lesson, on the positive use of “tubes,” upon the nipple.
 
Im283 - If you find that buying round balls, locally, will be a problem for a while; suggest the following web site:

http://muzzleloadingandmore.com/products/accessories/molds_round_balls/index.htm#Round%20Balls

Am sure that you are probably used to paying less, but at $13.30/100 they're, at least, affordable. No HazMat fees on lead round balls, yet, so far as I know of.

Had espied the Grand o’ Caps, offered by Cabela’s. Not in need of that many, all at once, myself. Will keep looking for the prices you’ve found. ‘Preciate it.

Would, also, like to know when you've come up with that tool.
 
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Make 'm fit

20061231_tools.jpg

My Dynamite Nobel caps would not fit the nipples I found on my Rogers & Spencer. So here is a set of stone honing tools I borrowed from my local gunsmith. He's a nice guy.

20061231_gunsmithingC.jpg

Things can be hard to see from this close:cool:. Insert the nipple into an electric battery drill. It will just fit the nipple and not damage the threads. It rotates at a nice constant and not too high speed.
Using a file in this process was tough, in my case the nipples were pretty hard. The stones, with some honing oil applied, worked great. It is no great deal to downsize every nipple to the perfect dimension for the cap you use, but take your time. Make sure you keep a slight taper so the caps will cling nicely to the nipple onces they are installed.

20061231_schoorsteentjes.jpg

Done. I use Dynamite Nobel 1075 caps, which were too small. They are a tad larger then CCI 11, but fitted perfectly after resizing the nipples.
Still replaced the caps afterwards because the gun still had a lot of misfires, the picture shown above may well have been the original R&S nipples. Check out the large exit hole, these did not work very well. With some new replacement nipples in place, with the regular small exit holes, no more misfires.

I would resize nipples to fit caps anytime instead of buying caps at random trying to find the correct one, or having to pinch them al the time.

Hildo
 
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