Carry questions

[grimjaw]

Choices, choices. I'll be pursuing concealed carry within three weeks. I just picked up a S&W M640 .357 w/tritium night sights. I've fired five or six .357 Magnum rounds out of it.

OUCH.

There's blood on the gun from the skin it tore off the web of my hand. I've also got soreness and swelling there. I'm sure it didn't help that I was using Corbon 125 grain. I think I'll practice with standard pressure .38's.

Anyway, I am deciding on which gun to carry on a regular basis. I have Makarovs in 9x18 and .380ACP; the guns are the same size. They are too big for most pockets, and don't draw easily from any. A holster will be necessary. I've read that holsters made for the Walther PPK's will usually fit the Makarov. Suggestions are welcome.

Even though the M640 isn't that much smaller, it pockets and draws more easily. There is some printing, but with a pocket holster, I think that can be avoided. With most of my pants, an ankle holster would be concealed fairly well. It's as heavy or more so than the Makarov, but still a light gun. The M640 isn't quite as concealable as the M642 is, but I couldn't get into the Airweight. I respect the opinions of the M642 users, but I couldn't find one to try out for myself. Plus, the M640 was a priced very nice, $450 for the revolver, original & night sights, S&W box, one speedloader, 25 rounds of .38 Spec +P, plus the opportunity to try it out before I bought it (FTF).

Given the choice between the two, which one would you carry more often? I'm thinking revolver, if for no other reason than it's easier to conceal. TIA, jmm

Links to pictures.
Both guns side by side
Size comparison
Night sights

 

[Double Maduro]

Grimjaw,

I carry a Ruger P90, so you can tell I'm not too worried about size.

Carry the one you shoot the best.

Go to www.makarov.com and see what they recommend for holsters.

Then go to http://www.tedblocker.com/ and see what they offer. Don, one of the owners often carries a Mak. I have a DA3 IWB from them for my Ruger, and a pancake for my 1911. Excellent quality and workmanship, and they are nice people. If you have any questions give them a call.

I hope this helped, let us know what you decide.
DM

 

[rellascout]

The difference in the size is not that much. A good holster should be able to conceal either one very well. To me it boils down to which on can you put more bullets on target with. The .357 will do you no good if you can't hit what you are shooting with follow up shots because of the recoil.

I am not a fan of pocket carry. just my $.02 cents.

Rellascout

 

[obiwan1]

I'll agree with "what ever you shoot best". Having said that, there's nothing wrong with carrying .38s in a .357. The FBI did it for years in their Smith m13s. It's the practical thing to do.

 

[shooter58]

Try carrying 158 gr. lead HP 38sp. +p in your 640. It will still shoot good and won't bite quite as much. It's the old "Treasury Load". Works well.

 

[Island Beretta]

ditto shooter58...

 

[TimboKhan]

I have three guns that qualify as carry guns, only because at different times I have carried each. First, I too have lugged around my P90. It's not my first choice, because it is a big gun, but I have carried it, and it worked out just fine. Secondly, I recently purchased a Taurus 24/7 in 9mm, and I have carried it on a couple of occasions. Thus far, I have had no problems with it, although it's main purpose is that of my "truck gun" (Why 9mm? two words: High Capacity) My main carry gun, and the one that I carry about 95% of the time is a Taurus .357 mag with the "snubby" barrel. Currently I have it loaded with CCI Blazer ammo (and I can't remember bullet weight. Boo Me). Anyway, my dumb-assedness aside, I routinely shoot the CCI rounds through my gun and I don't find them uncomfortable at all. Now, thats just me. If your gun is that uncomfortable to shoot, I personally wouldn't carry it at all. Shooter58's suggestion is a great one, and if it works, then I would carry that gun, but if your still experiencing discomfort, go with a different gun, specifically one that you can practice as often as is possible with.

 

[Standing Wolf]

There's blood on the gun from the skin it tore off the web of my hand. I've also got soreness and swelling there. I'm sure it didn't help that I was using Corbon 125 grain.

Stocks that fit your hand right can make all the difference in the world. Blood, by the way, can be highly corrosive to steel.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Oh Great! now you have a crazy gun. It has tasted blood and will crave more. You must sent it to me sealed in a NEW Gun safe so I can take proper steps to destroy it before it hurts someone else Only I can handle this dangerous task.

 

[TimboKhan]

Blood, by the way, can be highly corrosive to steel.

At the risk of coming off as a complete moron, is that actually true, Wolf? If so, why? Incidentally, I just realized that this is the second post of yours that I have responded directly too in the last 10 minutes... I swear that I am not stalking you!

 

[Double Maduro]

TimboKahn,

Blood is mostly hot salt water with some sticky stuff in it. When it dries the water evaporates but the salt stays. Salt + Steel = rust.

DM

 

[TimboKhan]

Blood is mostly hot salt water with some sticky stuff in it. When it dries the water evaporates but the salt stays. Salt + Steel = rust.

Well, that makes sense. Darn it, I came off like a moron...

Dumbokhan.

 

[Standing Wolf]

At the risk of coming off as a complete moron, is that actually true, Wolf?

That actually is true, and asking doesn't make you a moron. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

In addition to salt, blood contains a good deal of iron oxide, which interacts chemically with the iron in steel in P.D.Q. order. Iron oxide is part of what makes blood red. More than that, I couldn't tell you, but I've no doubt someone with a chemistry background could elaborate.

 

[MachIVshooter]

There's blood on the gun from the skin it tore off the web of my hand. I've also got soreness and swelling there.

Doubt you will notice the pain in a SHTF scenario. IMHO, carry the most potent firearm you can, so long as you can shoot it. Concerns of saving your hand from bruising are a very distant second from saving your hide.

 

[TimboKhan]

Doubt you will notice the pain in a SHTF scenario. IMHO, carry the most potent firearm you can, so long as you can shoot it. Concerns of saving your hand from bruising are a very distant second from saving your hide.

But, the problem is that if it is painful to practice with, he won't ever shoot it well, and when the SHTF, he will be stuck in a pretty bad corner. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44.

 

[Double Maduro]

Grimjaw,

Why don't you look into some other grips, maybe Hogues or similar. For some people the stock grips just won't work.

DM

 

[grimjaw]

Thanks for all the replies.

I agree that I'd want the most powerful round possible in a SHTF situation, but I'd want to be able to make followup shots, and it might be easier with the .38 Spec +P round than .357. I will start practicing with a glove, but I will still practice with .38's more often than .357. Right now I keep it loaded with Corbon 125 grain .38 Spec +P, but I can't afford to practice with that.

I am looking into different grips, something not much bigger but maybe covers the backstrap? I'm OK with the control that the boot grips give you, even with .357. It just hurts like @#$* to shoot.

jmm

 

[Dirty Bob]

Grimjaw:

There's also the opinion of some folks that .357 out of a snubby barrel isn't all that much more effective than .38+P, but with a much higher price in cost, recoil, blast, and shot-to-shot time (pulling the gun down out of recoil).

I find an all-steel .38 snubby very easy to shoot w/standard pressure .38s, and a lot more pleasant for anyone standing near me.

If you want to try an interesting "holster" for your snubby, buy a Barami Hip Grip. They're inexpensive, and I love mine. I have an all-steel snubby with a Barami, and I just tuck it in my waistband behind my hip, drop a Speed Strip in my right back pocket, and go. I don't notice the weight, even with a narrow "dress" belt. Some people find the Barami too smooth and cover it with tennis racket grip tape, or a chunk of bicycle innertube, or they "stipple" it with a hot wire. I use mine stock and am very satisfied with it.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

 

[147 Grain]

Recommend 38 Special FBI Load - 158-gr. LSWHP's at 890 fps in 4" pipe while indoors and only use the 357 Mag 125-gr. HP's outdoors.

 

[deputy tom]

Another vote for .38spl 158gr SWCHPs in your 640.tom.

 

[Bulldozer]

Look to any of the following as a good snubby load:

Remington R38S12 FBI Load
Winchester FBI Load
Speer 135-grain Gold Dot JHP
Winchester 130-grain SXT JHP

 

[Mulliga]

There's also the opinion of some folks that .357 out of a snubby barrel isn't all that much more effective than .38+P

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm

Stephen A. Camp's tests are pertinent here. It seems .38+P is significantly weaker than standard pressure 9mm. Even out of a snub, a medium-power .357 looks to be about as good as 9mm +P, and the full-house load is even better. It's fun to play ballistics games and caliber wars, of course, but I think in this case, there would be a real difference in terms of real-world performance.

The recoil, blast, and cost issues, however, are still very valid.