Carrying a broken CCW and didn't know!!

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Add me to the "Revolvers break too" crowd. In my case it was my wife's.

A few weeks ago, I took my wife's SW642 out of her purse to clean and function check it. I unloaded it and dry-fired it a few times. On the next to last dry-fire, I noticed an odd sound when the cylinder locked up and when I tried to swing the cylinder out, it was stuck. I then started dry-firing it slowly while watching everything. I noticed that the cylinder would turn, but I never felt the hammer drop. I took the sideplate off to see that the firing pin retaining pin had broken, allowing the firing pin and spring to fall down into the action and jam up the works.

I called SW and they sent me a new pin free of charge and I repaired it, but it made me queasy to think that my wife could have been carrying around a menacing looking paperweight.

W
 
For the uninitiated, please note that the Beretta, and its derivatives, has been tested by various militaries and law enforcement bodies all over the world and accepted as their official sidearms- nothing POS about Berettas.
 
I own six Beretta M92FS pistols. I carried one in a combat zone for six months. I managed an indoor shooting range. I train Marines on weekends. I consider myself qualified to address this topic, though others may disagree.

The open top slide design lets all sorts of crap get into the gun. The grip is too wide for most shooters. The transition between double action/single action is troublesome for people that don't train a lot. It is FAR too easy to engage the decocker while executing a speed reload, sending the slide forward and rendering the gun safe at a time when you REALLY don't want it to be. Invariably it is a second or two before the student notices his gun isn't firing.

On the subject of the deocker, the Army and Marine Corps require that the pistol be decocked and on safe for carry. A lot of my students have a helluva time digging that beast out of the holster, removing the safety and accurately engaging within the time standard required by the State Dept. The Air Force, God bless'em, while having saddled us with this POS at least lets their people carry offsafe. (We carried double action revolvers for how many years?)

While in Somalia I cleaned my magazines at least every three days. Every three days I found the mag spring rusted or somehow affixed to the mag body. I always lightly lubed the inside of the mag body...that approach never worked. At the time I thought that recoil would jar those rounds free were I ever to really need the gun. A trip to the beach/range toward the end of my tour proved that a false hope. (I believe these were Beretta OEM mags, but I'm not sure.)

While managing the indoor range I purchased five Berettas in order to keep at least two in the rental case. Within four months all of the guns were down. Cracked frames and slides and broken locking blocks. The Beretta rep said it was because we were using out of spec reload ammo. We were shooting 115gr commerically reloaded rounds that were 85% SAMMI specs. (The guns were throughly cleaned at least every three days.)

Many of the police departments you mention purchased the gun because DOD went that way in 1985. They figured that Uncle Sam must know something. Well, Uncle Sam knows how to keep tabs on the bottom line.

Along that line, how many of those departments are still issuing Berettas? LAPD was the BIG purchase...and they've moved away from the M92. I think that the Italians the Americans and the Taiwainese militaries are the only ones that issue the Beretta. (Not 100% on that, though.)

For me, the Beretta is at best a third-tier choice.
 
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Better you found it broken at the range than at 4:30AM with the BG's thumping up the stairs.... :what:
 
1911SForever:

I am sure from your note, that I can teach you many things about the Beretta..
that is if you'll open your mind to learn.

I have seen many broken range guns consisting of all types.. heck the first kaboom I had with a Glock was with a range Glock..

You can come over and visit at the Berettaforum where you can speak some more to the specialists (myself included). In addition you can do searches on thefiringline.com, here and elsewhere where I have posted information related to the weapon, the agencies and militaries worldwide that uses this weapon, size measurements etc. etc. I can say unequivocally, I do not work with Beretta or stand to gain financially in any way (and when they malfunction I do not hide it), that if you say Berettas are POS and genuinely believe it, then your professed knowledge of this weapon is questionable. :scrutiny:
 
When was the last time a large PD purchased the Beretta over HK, Glock or Sig?
I know they're still popular in some Maryland agencies, but only because they're manufacutred in Accokeek.

How many agencies have replaced their Berettas with pistols from the above listed companies?

How many glowing reviews have you read about the Beretta in US military service?

Defend it any way you wish, but the bottom line is that you purchased, and advocate, an inferior product.

(And yes, any individual pistol may fail. I'm talking about basic design flaws.)

Edited to add, "I stand by my POS statement." And I know I'm not alone.
 
Get a Sig.

No wait again...

Get an H&K.
Click to expand...

Either way you have the right idea. ;)

I'm with 1911SFOREVER on the Beretta issue. Many agencies like LAPD, WSP, TPD, Coast Guard and many others have moved away from the Beretta (LAPD-Glock and S&W, WSP- HK USP/USPc, TPD- Glock/Kimber, Coast Guard- SIG P229) The design has serious flaws and does not stand up to abuse and the rigors of carry like it's HK/SIG/Glock counterparts. It is MUCH more sensitive to neglect of maintenance and much less forgiving.
 
Hmmm.. Beretta bashing. Must be Glock Talk. *looks* Nope. Oh well. I've seen broken Paras, S&W autos, S&W revolvers, Sigs, Glocks, H&Ks, CZs, P9s, Bul, STI, SVI, Glock, I think every brand I've tried I've seen broken at one time or another.
BTW, US DoD subcontracted out a large contract for Beretta mags sometime back in the 90's, so it's possible the mags you encountered were not OEM. Mag springs need changing every now and then, I've read at least one claim that replacing the issue mag springs in Iraq with aftermarket wolf springs handled the reliability problems.

Personally I shoot a Glock, but I find the company on the Beretta forum to be so friendly and polite that I mainly post there.

Ken
 
Dry firing pretty much makes the firing pin slam into steel as opposed to being cushioned by the primer, causing it to come under more stress and being prone to breaking... This is what snap caps are for, they're basically a cushion for the safe decocking and dry fire practice.
Correct me if I'm wrong. :scrutiny: :scrutiny:
 
In the early 80's the services decided they needed to replace Old Slabslides. They issued criteria, and there was a competition between various competing models. Here's the funny part....the AIR FORCE ran the testing! Missiles, fighter planes, rockets, I can understand those guys doing that. But small arms?

Anyway, the Beretta essentially tied with the Sig 226 and won on price point. (Plus the fact that we wanted to sell F16s to the Italians.) The result is that the biggest POS since the Chauchaut machinegun has been foisted on the American fighting man.
Click to expand...
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. NATO agreements be damned!
 
mbs357,

You are right about dry-firing and the use of snap caps. This Beretta was dry-fired with snap caps and in addition the firing pin has a spring that cushions the fall of the pin. So it is not strictly metal slamming into metal. As I have said my observations have shown that the inserted trigger overtravel stop interferes with the firing pin block clearance and this caused a bit of drag against the firing pin weakening it over a period of time.

This pistol is now fixed and back in operation and I have been carrying it over the last few weeks while the Glock stays in the safe. It appears though that I have suicidal tendencies :uhoh: since I left perfection at home and choose instead to carry possibly the worst POS pistol ever made. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I will be lucky if it can get off a shot in a DS situation :(
 
Heh, I wouldn't use a Beretta for a carry peice...not after the things I've heard on this forum and this thread inparticular. Though I dislike Glocks, I'd choose one over a Beretta.
I guess there's no way to prevent anything in the pistol from breaking...best to just check up on it. =)
 
If you guys want to debate which pistol is better, take it to the autoloaders forum. The subject of this thread is carrying an inoperable firearm without realizing it. Stay on topic please....

Jeff
 
inoperable mk2 ruger

I had a problem I noticed recently with my ruger .22 mk2.

Apparently, there is a bit of variance in remington hollowpoint ammo. I had four failures to feed at a shooting session recently. The reason for the failure was out of spec cartridge diameters that didn't want to feed into the chamber and jammed the weapon solidly.

I keep the little .22 as a house gun and sometimes as a carry, mostly during hunting season as a backup for my bow, but have begun to (sometimes) carry it as a cc weapon due to its unerring accuracy.

Now, I check fit each round for the chamber and leave "guaranteed to fit" rounds in two magazines.
However, it gave me pause to think that factory ammo could be so out of spec. And that I was carrying it for defense.
I guess we all know how to spell assume, huh? :rolleyes:
 
good point, wheelgunslinger,

I know that I no longer do the check fit because I assume that the ammo will fit being premium and all that. :uhoh:

I will restart that activity whenever I purchase ammo and also strip mags and examine ammo condition probably weekly. It is simply amazing the amount of gunk and debris the pistol and magazines pick up in a week.
 
Another Beretta defender

I have a Beretta 96 Vertec....I've had it for 11 months now and its been through 5,000+ rounds with no problems. I replaced the 13lb. recoil spring with a 16 lb. spring from Wolff but only because I wanted to because 13lb. is what they use in the 92 (9mm) and the .40 does have more recoil so it seemed a worthwhile modification for only $7. :)


Sorry Jeff :uhoh: , I didnt see your post until it was too late
 
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