Gun Safety

[USN Gunner SW]

Given the topic of this forum, I think i'll include some things about firearms and firearm safety.

First off, the rules.

1. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
2. Always keep the weapon unloaded until ready for use.
3. Do not horseplay with a firearm.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger and safety on until you are ready to fire.
5. Do not take custody of or do maintenance on firearm unless it is visually inspected and is clear & safe.
6. Do not draw a weapon unless you intend to use it.


And here's a bit of lingo for firearms so you under stand the weapons condition.

Clear & Safe-Safety on, slide/bolt to the rear, no rounds in chamber, no magazine in the magazine well, or rounds in magazine tube (shotgun). Weapon should always be visually inspected to be clear & safe before taking custody or handling the weapon.

Condition 4-Inspected clear & safe, safety on, slide/bolt forward, no round in chamber, no magazine in magazine well, or rounds in magazine tube.

Condition 3-Safety on, slide/bolt forward, loaded magazine in magazine well, or rounds in magaizine tube.

Condition 1-Safety on, slide/bolt forward, round in chamber, loaded magazine well, or rounds in magaizine tube.

 

[shooter503]

Many of the people on this forum CC and believe in home defense. Thanks for the review of safety procedures but there really is no easy way to apply what I presume to be military rules to this situation.

I'll give you 3 out of 6 on the list. First thing is the weapon is always loaded because it is always ready for use. THIS IS NO DRILL. The fastest rising type of crime in our area is daylight "walk in" armed robberies. These criminals hit when people are home. I suppose it is easier than breaking windows since the doors are usually unlocked. Saying "Excuse me while I go from Condition4 to Condition1 " is not going to work.

What do you do if your gun has no safety?

 

[hso]

2. Always keep the weapon unloaded until ready for use.

How do you define this in a civilian defensive setting? Is it acceptable to keep a defensive handgun loaded at all times in this case?

 

[taliv]

the problem with your rules, is that they only apply to some specific situation in your head, that you haven't filled the rest of us in on. those rules suddenly cease to apply when the circumstances change. that makes them inherently less safe than the "4 rules" which apply all the time.

in fact, i would disagree with every single rule you posted.

 

[Low-Sci]

I object to some of those rules, but most strenuously to Rule 6.

Drawing a firearm in a defensive role is the exact same thing as using it. You're employing your firearm to deter violence. If you only ever draw if you intend to shoot, you're wasting a great deal of the options that having a firearm presents you with when you need to defend yourself. A great percentage of the time, just the presence of a firearm is enough abate violence.

 

[1911Tuner]

Rules

You can narrow it down to just four.

1. Yes. It's loaded, and it's always loaded until I verify that it's not. I won't take your word for it. Don't take my word for it. Check it every time the gun changes hands or is out of your sight or your direct control...even for a second.

2. Don't point it at anything that you don't want to make a hole in. Especially, don't point it at me. If you do, I won't be kind. I don't give a damn
if the safety IS on.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you want to make a hole in something. Pulling the trigger is what makes Johnny's gun go bang.
If you want to make a hole in something, pull the trigger. If you don't...don't.

4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it so that if you miss or shoot through the target, you won't make a hole in anything that you don't want a hole in.

Additionally..."Clear" means that the action is open, the chamber is empty, and no magazine is in the gun, if applicable. Don't trust the extractor. They fail. LOOK into the chamber or stick your finger in it to verify. If the gun is in battery, be afraid. Be very afraid.

It's not a toy and it is NOT your friend. It's as dangerous as a Pit Viper.
Regard it as hostile at all times.

 

[USN Gunner SW]

Update

Well, here's the thing, the purpose of keeping the weapon unloaded is a major safety measure. The purpose being that if someone manages to get a hold of the weapon, being if it were a child, teenager, someone piss faced drunk at your party, someone who has never even handled a gun before, or worse, the person breaking in. Now dont get me wrong, you want to have ammo at the ready incase of an emergancy, but in this case it doesnt have to be loaded, just close by in a place that you and/or your significant other only know about. Quite frankly, its not really that hard to load a magazine into a handgun or 3-5 rounds into a shotgun. Now this is a slightly different rule when carrying a handgun as apposed to having one stored, because its physically in your custody therefore being used as a deterant and defensive measure.

And as for not drawing the weapon unless you intend to use it, drawing a weapon and showing a weapon are two different things. Drawing a weapon should only happen when you intend to use it, however showing a weapon is still a deterant in its own, you dont have to have the gun pointing at them to make them run away. This goes back to training, what we teach in the military for anti-terrorism is very close to what civilian trainers teach for home and personal defense. This is in the sense that when a hostile chooses a target or victim, they will choose a soft one, meaning the easiest one to take advantage of, which for us could mean a terrorist planting a bomb on board, or for civilians getting mugged. Now to make yourself a hard target in the civilian world, you only need to have the weapon present, and the hostile will more then likely choose another target. Same goes for home defense, you dont have to have a weapon pointed at him to make him run and find another target, just have it visible and in your custody standing in the ready position, being the position where you preapare to draw in the instance that he draws his weapon should he have one. Just remember you're not going to be standing point blank at somebody when you have to show force, you're usually going to be at a minimum of 3-5 yards so that gives you plenty of time to draw and fire should you need to.

The best way to be prepared is to train yourself, in areas such as fast loading, and quick draw. Go to the shooting range like twice a month, and practice.

 

[Diamondback6]

Suggested mod to the original poster's #6:

Instead of

6. Do not draw a weapon unless you intend to use it.

might I suggest:

6. Do not draw a weapon unless you are ready and willing right there to use it and live with the consequences.

Just a thought, y'all. Of course, "use it" doesn't necessarily mean "fire it", if just pointing causes Mr. Vermin to turn and run away, you've used the weapon and it's done its job of stopping the threat. All depends on interpretations...

 

[1911Tuner]

Safe

Quotes:

Well, here's the thing, the purpose of keeping the weapon unloaded is a major safety measure. The purpose being that if someone manages to get a hold of the weapon, being if it were a child, teenager, someone piss faced drunk at your party, someone who has never even handled a gun before, or worse, the person breaking in.
*******************

How about keeping the gun on you at all times...even when you're at home watchin' the boob toob. Not acceptable or doable? You're not armed, except in the sense that you have a gun...somewhere.
*****************
And:

>The best way to be prepared is to train yourself, in areas such as fast loading, and quick draw.<


Haven't seen anybody yet who can: A...Draw, load, charge, and stop an assailant who is pressing an attack with a knife or bludgeon, or: B...react to a threat, get to where the gun is stored, load it, charge it, and address the threat as fast as he can draw it. Life and death situations are generally decided quickly, and don't allow for much time to scramble. If you're not ready to meet the threat within 5 seconds, including the time required to recognize it and react...you're probably gonna lose that fight. If you really believe that you can, you're kidding yourself.

As far as the invader gettin' to my gun before I can, I say to him...Lotsa luck, Chuck.


Here's the thing...It's a GUN. It's NOT safe.

 

[shooter503]

Now to make yourself a hard target in the civilian world, you only need to have the weapon present, and the hostile will more then likely choose another target. Same goes for home defense, you dont have to have a weapon pointed at him to make him run and find another target, just have it visible and in your custody standing in the ready position, being the position where you preapare to draw in the instance that he draws his weapon should he have one.

I am not prepared to gamble that a hostile will

"more then likely choose another target"

. What if he's drugged up and out of his mind?

"being the position where you preapare to draw in the instance that he draws his weapon should he have one".

I don't do movie gunfights. I don't advise others to get into them either. To give an exaggerated example, are you saying a little old lady should wait until a 20 year old intruder draws on her before she reacts? There are not many people who can win against a premeditated attack once the baddies gun is moving. The first factor is that his draw will probably be concealed so you are late for the party from the beginning.

Thanks for the reminders about safety, we all need them periodically and you have given us an occasion to rethink our ideas. However, now that you are on the site I think you will probably need to rethink the relevence of some of your military procedures.

To give another example, I, in accord with many others do not say "treat every gun as loaded". The darned thing IS loaded. There is a better than 75% chance that ANY pistol in the house is loaded. There is a 100% certainty that CERTAIN pistols are loaded. We have no children living at home, my wife and I both know the rules. Works for us, may not work for others.

 

[Clipper]

Sorry, but I can't resist...

...When some noob comes to a well-established forum and instantly lays his wisdom on us unwashed heathens who obviously are too stupid to be turned loose without their personal wisdom. I'm eternally grateful... :banghead:

 

[1911Tuner]

Noobs

Now Clipper...Play nice. He doesn't yet realize that there are a few members here who have indeed seen the elephant...who have actually carried guns because they needed to...and some who have been in situations that required
the use of those guns in order to get home alive.

As a wise man said: (Paraphrased)

"Once in every man's life, he should have to either run or fight for his life, so that he can understand that eggs don't come from the grocery store, that protection doesn't come from policemen, and that the safety catch on the gun isn't a safety at all."

Another sage quote that would seem to fit:

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice...they ain't"

--Yogi Berra--

 

[Starter52]

Thanks, Clipper. I'm glad I wasn't alone on this.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

in fact, i would disagree with every single rule you posted.

really? 3 4 & 5? what kinda problem you got with those?

 

[silverlance]

these threads are always amusing.

as are the first posts that laud at length the virtues of one's first ar, ak, 1911, etc.

but as for safety - i agree that guns are always loaded. this is a very hard rule to follow religously. how many times have you picked a gun up, and pointed it at something in your house just to get a feel for the sights?

each night i walk out to my back yard with my dog so he can pee. i carry a light-mounted p228 with me. it is VERY hard to resist the temptation to shine the light upward into the sky, paint the direct tv dish on the roof, shed some light on what's stuck on the bottom of one's shoes...

i now go out with both the handgun and a small e2d so i'm no longer tempted.

 

[smince]

Put this one with all the "Is Condition One Really Safe?" and "Condition Three For Carry?" threads.

 

[shooter503]

Go easy Guys. Gunner is entering a different culture. I am sure he has valuable contributions to make. Did none of you ever say anything that got some comments when you joined a new club or started a new job.

Welcome Gunner. You will find that people on the "Strategies and Tactics" forum tend to be a little outspoken. If it helps I am new myself. Don't let the time expired, opinionated old jerks get through to you. (Incoming!)

 

[taliv]

3. Do not horseplay with a firearm.

what exactly does horseplay mean? does it include fancy cowboy action stuff? bumpfiring? trick shooting?

most of my guns are TOYS. i bought them and shoot them to have FUN. as long as I don't break The Four Rules, i can PLAY SAFELY.

4. Keep your finger off the trigger and safety on until you are ready to fire.

as was pointed out earlier, many guns do not have a "safety". my 1911 is about the only gun i use the manual safety on. i follow the four rules. i find them much safer.

edit: i occasionally compete in steel challenge matches. the range rules require you to walk around between stages with the gun in the holster, slide closed and the hammer down. you can't put the safety on a 1911 when the hammer's down. this is an example where the rule above doesn't work

5. Do not take custody of or do maintenance on firearm unless it is visually inspected and is clear & safe.

this rule is stupid to the core. it demands I rely on someone else to clear a weapon and pronounce it safe before i "take custody of it".

I much prefer to assume every weapon is loaded and NOT safe when I take custody of it, at which point I will act appropriately.

I'm not trying to offend Gunner here by calling this rule stupid. I'm sure when he wrote it, that he had the best intentions and had a specific situation in mind (like standing in a gunshop, where i prefer to see salesmen clear a gun before handing it to me), but my point earlier remains pertinent: it doesn't make sense in most other situations. For instance, if I'm birdhunting, and stop to tie my shoelaces, I can safely hand a shotgun to a friend with the full knowledge that it is loaded and ready to fire. I don't need to unload it before handing it to him. I only need for him to follow the four rules.