case deminsions/lenght minimums

[TennJed]

where can i find info on the minimum size and lenght for a loaded round (spec. 38sp but all would be great) this is assuming the deminsions provided in manuals is for maximum lenght (lymans for example)....i have loaded my first batch of 38sp's and they fall well below the examples in my manuals

 

[MtnCreek]

I think the manual lists min COL (finished product). If you're well below that, you may have pressure issues. SAAMI specs list min and max COL and can be found on their webpage.

I think I'll revise a little: All things being equal: If your loaded cartridges are below the listed min COAL in the manual, the pressures are in excess of the intent of the manual for that powder charge weight. Be careful. If you used the starting charge weight, you Might be OK (and Might Not).

 

[dmazur]

(I think I already answered this on TFL, but I'll repeat it here because not everyone reads both... )

AFAIK, COL data is a guideline. From "Sierra Rifle and Handgun Reloading Data, 5th Edition" -

In the reloading data section, you will find the seating depth we used for a given bullet in the cartridge in question. Please understand that in most instances this length is only a guide, and that your seating depth may be different...The seating depth for many firearms is determined by the action type, and may not be varied much without causing functioning problems...Cartridges that require a crimp, either rifle or handgun, are also limited to a very specific seating depth by the cannelure placement on the bullet.

This manual has one of the better explanations of the reloading process, BTW.

One thing to check is that the data matches the bullet you are using. COL data can vary widely between bullets with the same weight but a different profile (JSP vs JHP for example.) You may simply be looking at data that doesn't match.

However, if the bullet type matches and your COL measures "well below" that listed, you have reduced case volume and the pressures you experience will be higher than those shown in the data. How much higher? Who knows...

While the .38 Special isn't a high pressure round with a history of KB's from bullet setback, the reduced volume should not be ignored. I believe the safest thing to do is to pull the bullets and seat them to the correct depth.

(.38 Special, so perhaps you aren't going to be fighting a really tight roll crimp? )

 

[TennJed]

ok here is what i got...maybe i am reading something wrong ...or maybe my cases are too short

lymans list the 38sp as 1.550 from bottom to bullet tip...case 1.155

mine are measuring about 1.433...case is 1.149

before seating the bullet measures .527....it is a 125 gr berry's 38 caliber product #95022....plated (no cannalure).....which berry's website does list this bullet as a 38 special

i would have to almost not seat this bullet at all to keep it at 1.550

so what are your opinions on this

 

[ranger335v]

"so what are your opinions on this"

My opinion is you're agonizing over trivia. I've been reloading for a lot of cartridges for a very long time and am yet to even pay any attention to a book OAL. (Read what's taken from Sierra above, you can believe they know what they're talking about.)

 

[MtnCreek]

My Lyman book shows 1.470 for a jacketed 125gr HP so you should be fine.

reloading for a lot of cartridges for a very long time and am yet to even pay any attention to a book OAL

The .38 isn't a high pressure/low capisity cartridge, but that is still not good advise.

 

[Strykervet]

"My opinion is you're agonizing over trivia. I've been reloading for a lot of cartridges for a very long time and am yet to even pay any attention to a book OAL."

Don't tell this guy that. You don't know his experience, and from what he says, I'd say he's still learning. That book data should mirror SAAMI specs and should all be the same. Don't play around with loading ammo. Do it right or not at all.

 

[TennJed]

Thanks guys I appreciate it. I did see where the above mentionEd they can very widely I guess I am just being over cautious since these are my first rounds.... thanks again

 

[TennJed]

I found saami website and it list the min as 1.40 and max as 1.56 so it Lois to be ok

Thanks again

 

[MtnCreek]

SAAMI's a good reference, but I should have mentioned, those lengths on their site have nothing to do with your powder type/charge weight. (Sorry, my bad).

 

[dmazur]

I agree that you're probably OK, even though I don't have any load data for the 125gr Berry's bullets. I understand .38 Special is a "forgiving" cartridge to reload, compared to .40 S&W or FN 5.7x28.

When I said, "If the bullet type matches" I was not talking about caliber. I was referring to JHP, JSP, WNFP, etc. The type (or profile) of the bullet.

What's going on here (I believe) is that your Lyman data is showing typical COL for .38 Special RN (round nose) bullets.

Your Berry's 95022 is a FP design. Same bullet weight in a shorter profile.

You really can't compare COL data between different bullet types.

So, the Sierra Manual is right. COL can vary. However, it doesn't mean it should be ignored.

Generally, if you can't find load data specific to your bullet, you can find a similar weight/profile bullet by another manufacturer and substitute that data.

Following my own advice, Sierra's manual shows a COL of 1.450" for a 125gr JSP bullet with a profile that looks similar to the Berry's FP. Your 1.433" is close.

Be careful to note the difference between loads for lead bullets and jacketed bullets, and that plated bullets are still being argued over as to which group they fall into. Berry's may have something to say on this, but I believe assuming they have the same barrel friction as jacketed is safer than assuming they are as slippery as lead.

 

[john16443]

Berry's site indicates they recommend the use of lead loading data and staying below 1100 fps IIRC. See their FAQ's for full information. That's where I start my workups from for my 9mm and 45ACP and have not run into any issues, even closer to the upper mid range of lead loads.

 

[dmazur]

Thanks. That's good to know. Last time I read anything about plated, there was concern about the friction.

 

[MtnCreek]

From Barry's Webpage:

Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

 

[dmazur]

Aha! I'm not senile... Yet.