Case failure in 9mm

[donttellthewife]

I have been loading the following recipe for the last 7000 rounds with no problems what so ever, for 5 different guns.

Win 115gr RN FMJ
Win 231 5.2grs ( I know this is high but it hasn't shown any signs of problems until now. It chrono at about 1180 when I first worked it up)
CCI 200 small pistol primers
Win brass ( range pick up, pre inspected by yours truly before loading)
OAL 1.20

Had a case failure with the following gun
Browning High Power 9mm Mark 3

Case failure was at the 6 Oclock position at the feed ramp. Damage was slight to none, still have to check things out completely tomorrow.

Of course the gun is not mine, but a friend who met me at the range, after haveing been to my reloading room to load up a 250 45acp rounds for some of his other guns. I have him load his own useing my equipment. Then it was off tho the range to shoot.

I have shot this same ammo out of my
Glock
Sig
Taurus
Smith + Wesson x 2
Kel Tec
( I was shooting a sig with the same lot of ammo right before this happened)

I have seen zero pressure signs, primers fine, spent brass fine, feeds fine, ejects fine, and accurate.

After the failure I checked out the other spent cases from that gun and they all were bulged from the unsupported feed ramp area. This was not the case for the other 9mm guns we were shooting with the same ammo.

I figure it one or a combination of issues,

to hot a load
bullet set back
unsupported chamber (I would like to hear from others that have this gun)
useing range brass
all the above

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[Steve C]

I'd think it would likely be just a bad case that's been loaded too often.

Your load isn't all that hot, Sierra lists 5.5grs as max with their 115gr bullets.

Don't discount the possibility of an over charge, esp. if loading on a progressive without a final visual inspection of the powder levels or a powder cop die.

 

[donttellthewife]

Loaded on a dillon 650 with powder check, and can see the powder in the cases while seating the bullet.

 

[Wildfire]

Bad case.

Hey there:
That brass wont live forever. Sooner or later they fail. Shooting competition for many years I have seen many split cases. Toss em in the junk brass bucket and move on.

 

[JDGray]

The only casehead failure I've seen in 9mm was an older G19(over charged case). Old brass will split in the neck which is harmless, but not blowout the head. Probably an over charge, or setbackMaybe the Glock weakened the brass on a previous shoot, but you would have seen that bellied out 40 look, at 6oc. Glad everythings ok!

 

[71Commander]

With the growing popularity of the 9mm major being used in USPSA matches, this could be a long term headache.

When using a 9mm at a match, because of the 9mm major, I have to consider it a lost brass match. If someone else picks up the brass, including mine and the 9 major brass, takes them home and reloads them, the problem begins. He takes them to the range. They may or may not fail. He leave one on the ground after shooting. You come along and find it.

 

[donttellthewife]

All 50 rounds that were put through the gun were bulged near the base.

I toss any cases in 9mm that have the Glock primer strike, bulged, split, or have resizing marks, it's difficult to get them all.

With a Sportsmanswearhouse within 2 minutes of the range most members still buy their ammo new. Also because I have no pride when it comes to being a range rat, I know how many empty ammo boxes are in the trash cans compared to how much brass is in the buckets. I can say that over 95% of the brass is once fired.

I'll be setting up a collet puller to check the powder charges of the rest of that lot of ammo.

The case

 

[rcmodel]

I'd be guessing an over-zealous shade-tree mechanic worked over the feed ramp & chamber edge on the H-P with a Dremel to get it to feed JHP at some point in it's life.

A stock Browning High-Power should easily handle any loads the other guns listed can handle.

See if the gun bulges cases with hot factory loads.
If it does, he needs to replace the barrel.
It has been ruined.

rcmodel

 

[Walkalong]

I see a little split at the case mouth as well. That is where a fatigued/work hardened pistol case should fail, not blow out at the head.

 

[Idano]

I encountered one of the those for the first time last year. The round was a 115gr HP loaded with 6.0 grs of Unique capped with a CCI 500. I shot it in my Beretta 92FS and the only thing it did was stove pipe.

Since I scrounge a lot of brass I was concerned that maybe just checking it for splits and loose primer pockets wasn't enough so I bought a L.E. Wilson case gauges for all my pistol calibers. Approximately the same time I was shooting my .40 H&K USP a lot using the same brass every week so I started checking them with the gauge and what I discovered that over the course of time all the cases were eventually developing what people here refer to as the Glock bellied brass. So now I always check all my brass after I resize with the Wilson gauge and since I have started I haven't had another web blow out.

 

[Walkalong]

I started gauging 9MM brass after buying an EMP with a very tight chamber. All my reloaded brass shot fine in all my other 9's but some would jam up in the EMP chamber.

If the sized brass will drop in and out of the gauge with its own weight, it will chamber in the EMP.

All the brass which would not was a bit big right at the juntion of the case head/case walls. It probably is a lot safer this way. I have never had a blown case head, but there is always a first time.

It does not take that long to gauge the brass, and I feel like my odds of having a blown case now have gone way down. I am going to continue to do it.

I gauged about 2200 9MM brass after sizing the other day and I culled about 40 or 50 of them. I still have more range brass boxed up, but will just save it as is for now.

 

[donttellthewife]

Walkalong,
I also gage all rounds with the dillon case gage, drop in and drop out, even though they pass the gage test I suspect the brass near the base could still be weakend from having been bulged out from prior firings.

By the way my biggest problem with rejects from checking with the case gages is with 45acp loads from beat up ejection nicks on the bases. I have been spinning them over a fine tooth file to clean them up.

I most likely over work the necks as I bell them a bit big to allow the bullets to seat easier when loading on the dillon. It makes it possible to keep a good pace going when loading on a progressive. Do you think this could stress the brass lower down were the failure happened.

rcmodel,
It's going to feel odd buying factory ammo to test the gun, I haven't used anything but my own reloads for so long. My friend has not had more than a 100 rounds thru this PREOWNED gun since he purchased it.

Idano,
Looks familiar, so far the only thing this has done is shake my faith in myself that I am doing everything correct and safe.


It well be a couple days, but I'll report my findings as I find things out.
Thanks again

 

[71Commander]

Read this. Look at post 9.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=57290&hl=9mm+major

 

[donttellthewife]

71Commander,

Thanks for the info, I was unaware of this type of case abuse going on with the 9mm major. I know if I was shooting that type of load I would never leave spent cases were someone would possibly reload it knowing that it has a much higher rate of failure. Luckly most people involved with firearms are some of the most ethical people around and would never want to endanger a follow shooter. Maybe that should be a policy with the 9mm major participants, dispose of cases so they won't be back in circulation.

 

[Idano]

71Commander,

Good find!

As the brass is resized over and over the ring will continue to get larger as it is resized.

Those pictures show exactly what I have experienced reloading same lot .40 S&W brass repeatedly. I do believe that ring can increases to the point where the integrity of the web is compromised and is exactly what happened to the 9mm casing with the web blow out of mine.

I also gage all rounds with the Dillon case gage, drop in and drop out, even though they pass the gage test I suspect the brass near the base could still be weakened from having been bulged out from prior firings.

donttellthewife,

I don't know what the tolerances are on the Dillon Case gauge but I don't believe that a bulged/banded casing would flt. The slightest bulge/band on a case will not go all the way into my L.E. Wilson case gauge. If the casing you had blow out on you was gauged before it was reloaded then I tend to believe this particular issue, bulge/band, isn't the culprit. How did your primer look?

 

[Walkalong]

The slightest bulge/band on a case will not go all the way into my L.E. Wilson case gauge.

Me too, except for 9MM, not .40.

 

[donttellthewife]

I think I misunderstood, I gage the finished rounds and have not gaged the fired unsized cases before reloading. After this that will be my new procedure

The primers were perfect, no cratering or anything. The cases from this gun were easy to identify from the others do to a really lite strike and again they are all bulged. I am thinking some one customized the gun and maybe did what rcmodel suggested to the ramp of the chamber. Hopefuly I'll know more tonight.

 

[Idano]

I think we might have confused you. The way you are gauging your brass is correct. Freshly fired rounds should never fit into the gauge until they are resized. I always gauge the brass after I resize it then if it doesn't fit then it goes into the scrap bin.

IMO if the freshly resized round fits into the gauge and isn't split it should be safe to reload. I know Walkalong has had some bulged/banded rounds fit into his gauge but those have to be so slight they hardly noticeable but I would say those are still safe. I know before I start using a gauge I loaded some really bellied/banded brass that was way out of tolerance and I have only had one web in 30 years of reloading blow out. Now that I know better and because I have some polymer framed guns I don't reload any brass that doesn't fit the gauge.

Like I stated previously if you did check the round that blew out on you after it was reloaded but before it was shot with a case gauge and it fit then I don't think that the case was bellied/banded to the point where the web was compromised. I think you need to look at possible over pressured (why I asked what the primer looked like) or possibly the web was mechanically damaged by a rough ejector if the brass was scrounged.

 

[Walkalong]

I know Walkalong has had some bulged/banded rounds fit into his gauge but those have to be so slight they hardly noticeable but I would say those are still safe.

I said something wrong if it gave that impression. I thought I was clear.

The slightest bulge/band on a case will not go all the way into my L.E. Wilson case gauge.

Me too, except for 9MM, not .40.

will NOT go

Most folks gauge loaded rounds, which is the way to go to make sure they will chamber. I was just interested in culling sized brass that was to big for the gauge. I may or may not gauge the loaded rounds, probably not.

 

[amlevin]

After the failure I checked out the other spent cases from that gun and they all were bulged from the unsupported feed ramp area. This was not the case for the other 9mm guns we were shooting with the same ammo.

Do you think there might be a clue in the above statement? Only one gun exhibited the bulge in the feed ramp area? Has the barrel been worked on and the feed ramp extended into the chamber in order to improve feed?

If this is the only gun caused the brass to bulge then I would not jump to blame the brass. I would put the magnifying glass on the gun itself, specifically the feed ramp. 9mm brass is pretty durable and not prone to failures like the one shown (like 40S&W or 45ACP).

 

[Wildfire]

WoW !

Hey there:
Why is it we always get the rest of the story late. I "ass"umed that the case failure was just a split case mouth.
After seing the pics, my take is you have a really bad throat and ramping job.
The problem is not going to go away. New Barrel time.
The other post in here about making major with a 9mm is also very true. That brass may not be something you would want to reload. To get a 9mm to make major one has to push it to the limits.

 

[Idano]

Walkalong, sorry about that my mistake I misread your response.

 

[Walkalong]

No biggie. I wanted to be sure readers understood that bulged cases would not go in the guage.