Cases where .22 WAS fatal

[Defensory]

Posted by LanternLad1
Enlighten us with your wisdom, oh ballistics master.No one is advocating carrying a .22, just pointing out that its nothing to sneeze at. Its a potentially fatal round, make no mistake.

Posted by Halo
I don't think anyone here is advocating the .22 as an ideal defensive round, but are simply pointing out that there is ample evidence that it can be very deadly and deserves all the respect given to any firearm.

DOH!

Thanks, but I already figured that out in the 1960's. Anybody with common sense already knows a .22 can be deadly, as can a wrist rocket, a knife and a club.

The painfully obvious doesn't need to be constantly reiterated and hashed over again and again. As other posters have stated, this thread is irrelevant.

"A .22 can be deadly!" Gee, ya reckon?!

 

[larry_minn]

I was in a small backwoods gun/sport shop. Guy wants a gun for "the little woman" He says he wants a .22 or .25 auto.
The sales man (who just handed me a Weatherby Vanguard) suggest he take a look at a S&W 642 or other J frame. He NICELY stears him away from the .22 or .25. I really wanted to thank him but other customers came in)
He didn't push it and even showed a couple single stack 9mm while pumping the guy for info on his wife. "has she ever shot a pistol? Rifle? shotgun?? Do you intend her to get permit and carry it on her person? car? purse??
He didn't try to push the sale but gave (IMO) good info in a fair manner.

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

.22 "robot" "suicide machine"
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/03/19/9039_gold-coast-top-story.html

Disturbing.

 

[marksman13]

Girl was killed here yesterday, 3-18-08, from a single .22LR to the chest. ER team worked on her for two hours, but the damage was too extensive. Didn't get all the gory detail, but apparently there was some richocet effect inside the chest cavity. Sad situation, but it shows that the 22LR is lethal. Does that make it the best choice for self defense? No. Will it work in a pinch? Definately.

 

[Shel]

Locally, (I am thinking it was in 05) a couple drunk guys got in an argument over religion, and one of them became angry and got a .22 out and shot the other guy in the head once and killed him.

 

[brentfoto]

larry_minn I was in a small backwoods gun/sport shop. Guy wants a gun for "the little woman" He says he wants a .22 or .25 auto.
The sales man (who just handed me a Weatherby Vanguard) suggest he take a look at a S&W 642 or other J frame. He NICELY stears him away from the .22 or .25. I really wanted to thank him but other customers came in)
He didn't push it and even showed a couple single stack 9mm while pumping the guy for info on his wife. "has she ever shot a pistol? Rifle? shotgun?? Do you intend her to get permit and carry it on her person? car? purse??
He didn't try to push the sale but gave (IMO) good info in a fair manner.
March 19th, 2008 10:02 PM

Stearing him away could be argued as ill-advised just as easily.

If wife has never fired a gun before, 642 would, IMO, be a very poor selection.

It requires practice, a lot, and the recoil would sufficiently intimidate most new shooters, particularly women, away from the shooting sports entirely. And the good-intentioned husband ends up getting a J-frame that scares the heck out of wife and results in dissatisfaction and a hassle over returning the gun.

Most new shooters are more likely to hit and be comfortable with a .22 than with a 642. So, it all depends.

 

[CajunBass]

My Uncle. One round, back of the ear, while sleeping, at muzzle flash range. Dead right there.

My Aunt, his wife, 5 rounds in the chest. Dead very soon after.

 

[brentfoto]

Sorry for your loss.

Anyone who makes light of the .22LR round should literally be punched in the arm (of course that's a battery, and we don't do that-but you know what I mean), so that it makes an impact on them to NEVER minimize the fact it is a lethal round. It may not be the best stopper, but it many time messes tissue up, and often results in death.

And anyone who introduces a first-time shooter to a .22 should thoroughly emphasize the round is deadly with proper shot placement.

I wouldn't want to be shot with it...would you?

Notwithstanding this, I canceled my order with my LGS to purchase the NAA mini-revolver (my anticipated 'ALWAYS CARRY' gun) and had him apply the funds to a Kahr CW9 that was on sale. Or pehaps, get a Bersa 380, or S&W 442/642, if you can handle the recoil.

[Anyone want to buy from me a new, never used custom holster grip (#GHG-L) for the NAA .22LR mini-revolver?

http://www.naaminis.com/custcry.html.

I'm willing to sell it for $30.00, free shipping. You'll probably save about $15.00 over the manufacturer's pricing with their shipping. PM me, if interested.]

 

[Ala Dan]

In my experience as a LEO, I have seen more persons killed by the .22 LR
round than I have any other caliber; bar none~! The incident that comes
to mind, one Saturday evening back in 1977 at 'bout 1700 hrs I was given
a call as "shots fired, with persons down" on my beat. When my partner
and I arrived on the scene, we found one John Guss B/M lying in the
drive-way of a residence with a single .32 caliber bullet wound to his
chest; and one David Haley B/M dead on the scene at 211 in East
Mulga, AL; having died from a single .22 LR caliber gunshot wound
that entered underneath his right arm, in the arm pit. Later, the
county medical examiner ruled that a .22 caliber LR round of solid
configuration had entered at the arm pit; penetrating the chambers
of his heart, making at least two 360 degree circles before finally
coming too rest. Investigating detectives ruled that both were
shot duirng some sort'a family disturbance. The next shift, we
encountered Mr. John Guss on the front porch conversing with
other members of the community.

 

[isp2605]

Like Ala Dan - 2nd most cause of shooting deaths I've seen were with .22. The most was with 9mm simply because I spent a lot of years doing LE related shooting investigations.
I carried a .22 pistol in my squad for dispatching road hit deer. During the rut it would not be unusual to put down 2-3 every shift. Never took more than 1 shot with the .22. In addition, in my younger days I spent quite a bit of time helping my uncle in his small meat packing/butcher shop. We dispatched all the hogs and cattle with the .22 galley rd. That would be 12-15 animals per day, everyday except Sunday. I don't recall ever taking more than 1 rd for any critter.

 

[Owen]

i'm curious about the "ricochet around the rib cage" effect. Considering that .22 penetrates 6" in gel IIRC, what is it about hitting a rib that could casue it to travel twice as far or more?

I'm wondering if people are confusing tumbling with ricochet, and the ricochet effect has turned into an urban legend of sorts.

 

[RP88]

I saw an episode of Cops, where they responded to a call where a large buff guy (about 250+ pounds) got into a fight with his brother and got shot in the chest with a .22 semi-auto pistol. He got hit once in the lower chest--probably near the bottom of the heart. The bullet missed his lung and heart, but the guy was crying and screaming and walking around dizzily throwing things and punching the fence without much of his strength, yelling and cussing incoherently. If he were, say, a burgular who got shot by a victim, then you could probably agree that the threat was over right then and there even though he did not fall or die. The single police man who first arrived had no problem getting him to the ground in his injured state; the pain had weakened him too much for him to get back up after the cop tried to help him off the curb to let him into the ambulance, so they had to pull out a stretcher....IIRC, of course.

I think that shows how getting shot with anything is serious business.

 

[papajohn]

Bullets in bodies can do three things...........pass through soft tissue, deflect or ricochet off bone, and fragment. As soft as most 22's are, they flatten out easily, and become even more lethal as they knife sideways through even more tissue.

I'd always heard the mob liked 22's for hits, usually behind the ear or in the back of the head. The skull is thinner there, and the bullets rarely exit, plus the added ease of concealability and the minimal sound signature. Using a semi-auto at contact distance, I'd bet the pop wouldn't be any louder than dropping a book. And as was mentioned, soft lead bullets are a lot harder to identify, or trace back to a particular gun. That would certainly explain WHY the 22 is considered so dangerous. Shoot somebody in the head from three inches away, the odds of them dying are pretty good!

On the same token, I wouldn't stand in front of a 22 rifle pointed at me from 200 yards, either! I've been tagged in the leg with a 22, and would prefer not to experience that again.

Papajohn

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

.22 has killed a lot of people. Shot placement is everything. There was a teenager killed in a drive by in Las Vegas with a .22 just about a month ago.

 

[Crow1108]

MACV-SOG carried suppressed .22 High Standard pistols in Vietnam (among other things). If you want a good read that talks about those guys, google "We Few" by Nick Brokhausen.

 

[RyanM]

i'm curious about the "ricochet around the rib cage" effect. Considering that .22 penetrates 6" in gel IIRC, what is it about hitting a rib that could casue it to travel twice as far or more?

I'm wondering if people are confusing tumbling with ricochet, and the ricochet effect has turned into an urban legend of sorts.

Have to remember 10% ballistic gelatin is meant to simulate the penetration depth of bullets in swine thigh muscle tissue.

Human lung is most likely quite a bit less resistant to penetration than pig thigh.

 

[mr.trooper]

the first police officer ever killed in this town was with a .22, back in 1908 i think it was.

Him and his partner were were chasing a bad guy down the street. his partner fell behind. As the two were running, the BG wheeled around and fired a single shot from a .22 pistol. The bullet nicked the officers Femoral artery, and he was unconscious before his partner caught up. Dead before help arrived.

That was back when all the only load availible for the .22lr was a 40gr lead ball at 1,020fps (from a rifle).

Now read this:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/WaltherP22test.html


if you take those numbers, CUT THEM IN HALF, and lay them over a cross section of a human torso, you get this:


As long as you don't hit bone, a .22 will penetrate just fine. Its ALL ABOUT SHOT PLACEMENT.

 

[RyanM]

Eewww. Note to self, do not donate body to science.

 

[wyocarp]

Defensory, I wouldn't want a 30-06 or a .22 when defending myself against a grizzly. On the other hand, the .357 will make a hole through me and if it doesn't hit a vital organ might be a whole lot better than having a .22 bouncing around inside me until it runs out of energy.