Cast 45-70 help

[Charlie98]

I shot some IMR4198/405grn loads this weekend out of my 1895, they did very well, even out to 200yds and the recoil was not as severe as the loads with IMR3031/4895/4064. 30grn gave me 1270fps, and 35grn 1475fps.

 

[C Younger]

Charlie, thanks for the info. What brand bullet were you using. I know where I can pick up some H4198 which is a little different than the IMR version, but pretty close in burn rate if I remember correctly. You didn’t happen to measure the velocity of multiple shots did you? One thing I’m really having a problem with is consistancy with H4895. I’m gonna try some Triple 7 over my weekend. I know velocity was very consistant, but didn’t write down how my accuracy was when I tried it about a year ago.

 

[brewer12345]

I am sold on 4198 for cast rifle loads. Very forgiving and plays well at lower and higher charge levels. My go to powder for 3006 and 35 rem.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like I said in the beginning if this thread I used a lot of 4198 in the 45-70 and I worked well. When I tried AA5744 it became my go to 45-70 powder. It's a bulkier powder so it fills the case well which tends to aid in low SD numbers. 3031, 4895 and 4064 will all work but require more powder to achieve acceptable velocities which in turn raises the felt recoil.

If you want to go old-skool give 2400 or even Unique a try, they are fun loads.

 

[C Younger]

I tried more 4895 than I’ve tried before (48 gr) the other day. Wasn’t terrible in the recoil department, but at near 100% case capacity I expected a smaller belocity spread. I only fired three, but the velocities were 1538, 1626, and 1585 or thereabouts. I also got a small amount of leading. This was more like velocity related leading though as it was further down the barrel and more like a thin film. I figured about 50 gr would be 100% volume, which should make my velocities more consistent, but really don’t want to go any faster. I’m not quite ready to try fillers out; thought I was, but then started reading about chamber ringing. I get nervous about breaking my things.

 

[Charlie98]

Charlie, thanks for the info. What brand bullet were you using. I know where I can pick up some H4198 which is a little different than the IMR version, but pretty close in burn rate if I remember correctly. You didn’t happen to measure the velocity of multiple shots did you? One thing I’m really having a problem with is consistancy with H4895. I’m gonna try some Triple 7 over my weekend. I know velocity was very consistant, but didn’t write down how my accuracy was when I tried it about a year ago.

The 405's were from Montana Bullet Works, they were gas checked. I didn't track every shot, I had about 20 loads of various cartridges I had to run across the screens so I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it. I just needed a general idea of where my loads were. I'm using 2 new powders... IMR4227 and IMR4198... and I had no idea where they would be, velocity-wise.

My further data is...

47grn IMR3031 1720fps
47grn IMR4895 1525fps (which surprised me, the way they kicked...)
48grn IMR4064 1650fps

The interesting thing is the economy of IMR4198... 35grn to get to almost 1500fps, using 25% less powder than the IMR4895 load.

Everyone mentions AA5744 as THE powder for the .45-70, I may give it a try someday. I don't know that I will ever fool with Unique or 2400 in the .45-70, case fill is one of my concerns as well; it's not such a big deal in a single-shot, but with a lever-action you would have to 'muzzle up' after cycling the action to settle the powder against the primer, unless you are using a filler... which I'm not going to do, either.

As an aside, my test IMR4198 load under a 170grn .308" bullet (in both the .30-30 and .308) gave the most consistent velocities. Although I didn't note it, when I was shooting them over the chrono I noticed a SD of less than 5fps in 4 rounds. I've never seen that before.

 

[C Younger]

Thanks for the info, Charlie. I’m currently loading .223 and plan to load .308, so if I don’t like the H4198 in 45-70 I can still use it. Hopefully the velocity spread will be about the same as what you experiened with the IMR4198.

 

[Charlie98]

Thanks for the info, Charlie. I’m currently loading .223 and plan to load .308, so if I don’t like the H4198 in 45-70 I can still use it. Hopefully the velocity spread will be about the same as what you experiened with the IMR4198.

I don't know that H4198 would be my first pick in either .223 or .308 with jacketed bullets (I also load .308 for my Savage bolt gun and M1a) but it works dandy with low-velocity cast bullets in my .308 Savage 99.

 

[C Younger]

Did a very little bit of shooting today. 28gr H4198 with CCI 200 primer and 405gr Missouri bullet gave me velocities of 1257, 1222, and 1176. The group at 220’ was 1.5” verticle by .25” horizontal. The highest shot was 7.5” inches above the center of the dot, but windage was perfect. I don’t care for the velocity spread, but can’t complain about the group. I may try WLR primers next time as they are a little warmer, so will maybe reduce the velocity spread a touch. No noticeable leading.

58gr volume of Triple 7 with WLR primer and 405gr Oregon Trail gave me velocities of 1284, 1278, 1272, 1295, and 1284. The group at 220’ was 3.125” verticle by 2.625” horizontal all around the orange dot. Last time I tried T7 I used 60gr volume and had about a 7fps extreme spread and my velocities were higher at about 1305.

Pretty happy with how it went, and may have found my new favorite powder with the H4198.

 

[Charlie98]

CCI primers are known to have a pretty hard cup, I'll be interested to see what you get with the WLRs...

 

[C Younger]

I know this thread is starting to get a little on the old side, but have some new test results to post.

Load 1: 28.5gr 4198 405gr Laser Cast and CCI 200 primers. This time, After chambering each round, I would point the rifle up, slowly lower and shoot. Velocities were 1283, 1294, and 1297 with a 1.5” X 0.75” group at 230’.

Load 2: same as above but with WLR primers and no pointing up before shots. Velocities were 1206, 1222, and 1284 with a 3.125” X 2.5” group.

While three shots of each load is hardly conclusive, I think it’s safe to say that the WLR’s did nothing to help consistency while settling the powder at the primer end of the case helped tremendously. Now, to see if adding more powder will help get some better consistency without having to point up.