Cast Bullets and the Lee Factory Crimp Die

[tkcomer]

Should the Lee FCD be used on cast bullets that are over sized? I've ordered some 44 cast bullets that are sized at .431 and now I'm wondering if I should use the FCD as it post sizes the shell. These are 44 mags being loaded in a levergun and need to be crimped.

 

[Walkalong]

.431 is probably not enough to worry about. Load a couple and see. If they fit in the chamber you are good to go and you might find the .431 bullet will shoot better than if you had .430's or "post sized" them. I am not a fan of using the Lee FCD to post size and scrunch otherwise perfectly good ammo.

My Winchester 94 liked em .431 or better as its bore was oversized.

 

[Walkalong]

dangit, got me.

 

[tkcomer]

I had some plated bullets that I bought years ago. Don't even know who made them as they were not in the original box. Measured at .429 and they shot horrible out of this gun so that's when I ordered the .431 cast bullets. It was then I got to thinking about the post size feature of the FCD figuring it might try to "size" the bullets themselves down to .429.

 

[Asherdan]

Yes it will stick up and try to size 'em some. I use .431 cast for 44 mag in a marlin 1894. The Lee FCD hangs up on these when both entering and being removed from the die. It only hangs up slightly for me, but it's there. Your call on if you force a few through or find another option.

 

[tkcomer]

Drat, I was afraid of that. I have a Rossi Puma and it actually shotguns these bullets at 25 yards. 8" groups with no consistency. I haven't tried any factory loads through it. S&W 629 shoots them great. I can't remember, does the Lee seater die crimp? I think it does. I have the Lee turret press and threw out all unnecessary stuff to make room for all my other junk.

 

[Walkalong]

I have a Rossi Puma and it actually shotguns these bullets at 25 yards. 8" groups with no consistency.

If you are shooting lead at full load .44 Mag levels you may have leading issues which will make it shoot that badly. Ask me how I know. They would have to be very hard hard cast bullets to work, especially if they are slightly undersized for the bore. I used Super Grex in my lead .44 Mag loads to stop leading in my 94. Gas checks will work also. The only lead bullets I used that would not lead at that velocity were some very hard cast heat treated lead bullets. They shot OK, but the answer for me and my .432ish bore was Super Grex, or useing plated or jacketed bullets.

 

[Asherdan]

Yeah, I use the Lee die set for 44 mag, follow the instructions to set down the die and roll crimp if you're seating those things at the cannelure.

I'd say your next best shot would be to clean that bore and slug it. I'm shooting .431 as a minimum because of a .4295 bore. Even then, on softer loads using Unique with the hard (~24 BHN) commercial cast I have I'll get some leading the first two inches of the bore before it bumps up and seals. With my full up loads using 2400 I don't get much for leading. I live with a little bore scrubbing because both loads I've settled on are accurate as the dickens. If you're sitting on a .430-.431 bore those bullets probably can't be solved for you and you'll need to look for a .432 source (like Beartooth) or start casting your own.

Cast bullets can be so much 'fun' sometimes.

 

[tkcomer]

I'm using 12grs of True Blue and the bullet in question is a 240gr flat point. It's a starting load. Ramshot lists 1188FPS with a 240gr jacketed bullet. I always start at the bottom with a "new" gun but I may back down to somewhere between 44 mag and 44 special load data. I did take one of the bullets and tapped it into the barrel and pulled it back out. It has slight groove marks on it, that's why I went to the .431 size. Guess I'll have to crimp them the old fashion way.

 

[Galil5.56]

Lee does have an oversize FCD for the 44 Mag/44 Special. Call them and ask about it, as I don't think it's ever been a cataloged item. It's sizer ring is .003" over the "normal" one, and might work for you. The std FCD seems to have a sizer diameter around .453", so I'd be willing to bet a size-to case O.D. of .456" would work just peachy with those .431", and larger bullets.

BTW, I like .431" and .432" bullets in my Model 29, gas check or no gas check.

 

[italian biker]

By saying "hung up", do you mean there is some resistance on the down stroke removing the round from the FC die? I started using one with my 40s&w, and have adjusted it down, to where it still had some. Is that unsafe?

 

[tkcomer]

That's not what I mean. I got the new bullets in and the round won't even go into the FCD. But I now have trouble with the seat/crimp die. It shoves the bullet further into the case before it starts to crimp.

 

[ranger335v]

"...trouble with the seat/crimp die. It shoves the bullet further into the case before it starts to crimp."

Back off the seating stem.

Crimpers, of any type, only affect the case mouth, about 30-50 thousants of the case length and, of couse, the bullet too. Properly adjusted to crimp in the crimping groove that's too little of the bullet length to make any difference.

 

[tkcomer]

I took the seating stem clear out and it still shoves the bullet into the case before crimping. Right now I got my old RCBS seat/crimp die in the turret. But that die doesn't like that little bit of play in the turret. I haven't fiddled with it enough to deal with that play, but I did load a few. Rifle loves 'em.

 

[tkcomer]

Well, Lee seat/crimp die was full of lube. I called Lee up and they had me take it apart. I felt like an idiot on that one. But, they do have FCDs on oversizes and I ordered one. I could have sent the old one in and had it reamed out, but I decided to keep it for my pistol rounds. Lee all the way!