Cattaraugus 225Q

[nebeel]

Hi all,

Quick question about a knife I have.

I have a Cattaraugus 225Q fixed blade knife that I inherited from my grandfather. I'm not sure where he got it, but assuming it has a military history based on the small amount of research I have been able to do so far.

My question is whether this has enough value (other than sentimental) to keep from using it and keeping it only as a collectible. If you see the pictures below, you can see that it has already seen it's share of use and is not in "mint" condition, although it definitely still has life in it.

Thanks!

 

[nebeel]

Couple more pictures

 

[BCCL]

My opinion, if you want to use it, then clean it up a little and enjoy. They are tough knives, but they made a lot of them, and the only ones that have real high collector value need to be mint. And while they were military contracted and issued, after the war they sold ots of them surplus with cheesy advertising as "Marine Commando" knives.

I gave $45.00 for this one after I dug it out of a pile of knives on a gun show table and cleaned it up a little and it's a great outdoors knife.

 

[nebeel]

Beauty!

It's a really solid feeling knife and I really like the feel of it.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Quartermaster

One of the two big name Quartermaster knives, the other being the Ontario ON-P3.

The older Cattaraugus production is somewhat heavier than the newer (Ontario) ones, and a smidgen longer.

Nice knife. Tied for top of my list for military knives.

Use it, take good care of it. Learn its history; pass on both the knife and the history to your son or grandson.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I always thought of the Case 337Q as the "other" quartermaster knife. I see that there's a beautiful new production Ontario available from Ontario for $75.00. Funny that the Ontario slipped my notice. I love these Quartermaster knives for their robustness and balance.

On the OP's knife, if you commence to use it - mind you keep that left handed sheath safe and use a replacement repo from a gun show. I try to match pretty Quartermaster knives with proper sheaths and am having a bear of a time lately.

 

[rcmodel]

My father was a Sea Bee in WWII.

He bought this one in the ships store (PX) on the way to the Philippines.

Whether they were ever issued or not, I don't know.
But he had had to pay for his out of his meager pay check.



I do remember him spending one evening in 1951 sharpening it to a razor edge in preparation for butchering a hog the next day.

Then while butchering the hog, the knife slipped through his bloody hand and cut three fingers clear to the bone!!

He always thought it should have had a bigger guard on it.

rc

 

[nebeel]

It would seem that the general consensus is to use it, which I'm happy to hear. How would you recommend cleaning up the blade?

I know that I could use a wire brush wheel on a grinder, but that seems a bit drastic. Is there something else that would work better?

 

[rcmodel]

0000 steel wool & oil.

Just don't cut yourself doing it.
Lay it flat on a bench and work on one side at a time so the edge isn't going to bite you if you slip.

I'd put several hand rubbed coats of Camp-Dry Leather Lotion on the handle leather & sheath.
Followed by Kiwi clear/neutral color wax shoe polish.

rc

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

here are a few photo's of one of mine.

 

[hso]

Considering the sentimental value, I'd buy new to abuse and make this a family keepsake.

 

[BCCL]

I used real fine sandpaper to clean mine and heated the leather handle with a hair dryer and applied Snowseal (beeswax) to the warm leather until it soaked in.

 

[nebeel]

HSO, I think that's good advice and I believe I'll take it and not try to clean the blade up. Has character the way it is now too.

Although, I will continue to use it, knowing my grandpa, that's what a knife is for , and why else would you have it. I swear, even after all this time, I took it out of the sheath when I got it and could pretty darn near shave with it!

 

[1SOW]

The 225Q Cattaraugus knife won the contract during WWII. The company later divided, and one became what we now know as the "Case" knife company. The knife was cited for strength and durability.
My dad was issued his in WWII. I inherrited it in 1883.

It is indeed durable. The steel is very high quality and done by knife makers brought to this country by the company. Info is available on the web.

Mine has been polished and the leather grip looks almost like new. The sheath is falling apart, and I considered trying to make a replica--but don't see the point after considering it. It was made to be worn on the belt opposite the 45ACP.

 

[rcmodel]

Ahh?

As far as I know there was no "contract", and the Q225 was never an issue knife in the strictest sense of the word.

There were needs for a Quartermaster's knife like the Q225, but there was no official "contract" to make them for any branch of service.
And it had no military designation for an issue item.

Case and possibly others made a similier heavy duty Quartermaster knife as well.
But they were not official military issue either.

See post #7.

Those that got them bought them stateside in a PX, or in a ships store on the way to war, or were issued them on an individual basis from individual unit purchases of some sort.



rc

 

[hso]

The Cattaraugus are far more valuable to collectors.

 

[1SOW]

There were needs for a Quartermaster's knife like the Q225, but there was no official "contract" to make them for any branch of service.
And it had no military designation for an issue item.

Case and possibly others made a similier heavy duty Quartermaster knife as well.
But they were not official military issue either.

When Cattaraugus owners split up, One started the CASE knife company.
The " 225Q" as stamped on the blade next to the hilt.

"WWII US 225Q Commando Fighting Knife -
In the Burma Campaign, the Chindits, whose long range penetration groups were trained to operate from bases deep behind Japanese lines, contained commandos (King's Regiment (Liverpool), 142 Commando Company) and Gurkhas. Their jungle expertise, which would play an important part in many British special forces operations post war, was learnt at a great cost in lives in the jungles of Burma fighting the Japanese. The United States formed the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) during World War II under the Medal of Honor recipient William J. Donovan. This organization was the predecessor of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and was responsible for both intelligence and Special Forces missions. The CIA's elite Special Activities Division is the direct descendant of the OSS. In mid-1942, the United States formed the Rangers. The United States and Canada also formed a sabotage ski brigade for operations in Norway who became known as the Devil's Brigade, officially known as the First Special Service Force, during their eventual service in Italy. Merrill's Marauders were modelled on the Chindits and took part in similar operations in Burma.

These specialized troops required specialized knives to do the job.

Manufactured by Cattaraugus. The model 225q was designed for use by the US special forces. With a very stout blade measuring approximatlly 6 inches. Leather handle with a checkered pommel. The knife came with a leather scabbard.

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/cattaraugus/WWII_cattaraugus_knives.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattaraugus_Cutlery_Company

I couldn't find another site that specifically mentioned "winning the contract". Army and Navy issue, was also mentioned. My dad was an Army MP.

 

[ivankerley]

225Q

i love mine! while i'm not an authority on the subject, the link below provides info from an article written by Frank Trzaska, @ US Military Knives. Com, he's on a few knife forums and is quite knowledgeable in Military knives, etc.
I will point out that the Case 337Q was made in smaller numbers, and was finished a bit nicer, also the pommel was different than the 225Q's locking steel discs.
225Q's come up quite a bit, you Dont see the Case all that much.
Ive read that the other tell tale of the Catt225Q was the rough portion on the handle, ive read that it was intentional but that all the 225Q's should have this (ive seen a few buffed out over the years)

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31346

regards
Gene

 

[1SOW]

Mine has some kind of regular small cuts/marks on the both the top and bottom of the hilt and the three locking discs. My 'guess' is that it was put in a vise to sharpen it.

Ivan, your link basically agrees with another that I found some time ago the indications that there were Army and Navy 'contracts' for the knives. The Catt and the Case knives were the most purchased. I can't find the dern link now.
The question raised about "why the left hand sheath" was also "maybe" answered by showing pictures of prominent Army officers with the knife on the left and the 45 on the right.

 

[ivankerley]

yeah i have read that about the left hand heath also, would love to find the Case 337Q but they command a premium whereas my 225Q cost me Just a smidge under $30...
Love mine its a tank of a knife in heft compared to the Mark 2's ive handled.
There used to be a few sellers on ebay that sold reproduction sheaths for these, havent checked in a while, but for anybody needing replacement leather pants for there Q might be worth a look
Gene