CC in restricted areas

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bandur60

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Been kicking this around in my mind for 2-3 weeks, and while reading, " Why the low number of viewers...", decided to throw it in here. I don't even know what kinds of responses to expect, if any.

I've carried for a few months now, permitted in my home state and permit is honored in many others, LCP in Nemesis front pocket. A few times I have honestly forgotten it's there and entered a bank or post office, then either realized it before or after doing what I went in for, and had the "Oh crap!" moment. Was going into a museum with Mrs, more because we were in that town than because of any consuming interest, and saw the "no firearms" sign before we paid the admission. Two badged guards at the entry door, I told the wife I couldn't go in, she knew why, and we just puttered in the gift shop a bit, and left. No issues.

I know the part about "concealed means concealed," and can believe that some would or do carry 100% of the time (don't some?) with or without permits; I just don't want to jeapordize my permit or my Ruger by getting caught up in a situation such as these. Am I being a wuss for feeling that way? Not looking for any flames here, but if I was willing to carry 100% what's the point in having the CWP? I plan on continuing to follow the rules, but curiousity has overcome me.

As said, I don't even know whether to expect any answers---- those who don't feel the same as I do may not even want to advertise and I can appreciate that. Mods delete if this is a stupid or pointless question.

Oh .... and I do have larger handguns available, just getting used to the feeling of carrying "anything" to begin with.
 
In my state, breaking the rules escalates the level of charges as compared to a non CHP holder. If insisted on carrying even where I'm not allowed, I'd be better suited to not have a CHP.

That being said, I'll follow the rules for the sake of my own legal defense.

I can be a bit absent minded at times. I think I may be entering midlife puberty or something. I could very well imagine myself forgetting to remove a pocket 380. I'd have a dedicated pocket that nothing else goes in, but I could imagine "I would forget it's there" from time to time.

I guess that is why I prefer to carry a larger gun that is more comforting and less comfortable. For years I've carried commander sized 1911's. I recently bought my first glock, a gen4 g17. I loved it and promptly sold it to purchase a g19. I don't often sell guns, but frankly there was nothing memorable about glocks for me...they just work. I've been carrying the g19 for awhile and despite the fact that it is thicker than what I've usually carried, I like it and I conceal it well.
 
On THR, we do not advocate, support or endorse illegal activities. We are supposed to be the good guys, remember? And if we act no differently from the bad guys, then what's the difference?

Older hands here are well aware of the above, and that will no doubt influence any answers you get from that side of the room. And now newer members should be aware as well, and with luck won't commit any errors sufficient to require further attention from the staff here.

lpl
 
...if we act no differently from the bad guys, then what's the difference?
Click to expand...


Lee: I understand fully the point of your post, and I am in no way advocating, supporting, or endorsing illegal activities.

However, there are fundamental differences between an otherwise law abiding citizen ignoring a gun-busters sign in a public place - and violent behavior by a genuine "bad guy".

In addition, in some jurisdictions, ignoring said sign may not be illegal unless (a) you are discovered AND (b) you refuse to leave when asked. At that point you are trespassing - not breaking a firearm ordinance.
 
Thanks Lee; it wasn't my intent to get guys to jump off the high road, there are other forums where that's more likely to happen. I guess I really didn't expect any "macho" carriers to respond. The question has just been gnawin' on me. I appreciate THR, and will back on out of here with this post. Thanks again.
 
I don't care about breaking the no gun "rules" only the laws.

In my state, the only places where carrying weapons constitutes a criminal act are in courthouses and federal offices with signs strictly forbidding weapons and warning of criminal consequences.

As far a no gun signs on businesses, concealed means concealed. I may choose to boycott their establishments but sometimes I am unaware of their policies until I show up.

Know your local laws, they vary widely from state to state.
 
I think the important thing to note is that the laws do vary from state to state, and it's worthwhile to know the law that applies where you find yourself. If you do find yourself in an "Oh crap!" situation, my advice would be to remove yourself as unobtrusively as possible.

I'd also note that a "no firearms" sign may or may not have legal implications in your state. In many states, while private concerns may post such signs with the result that concealed carry within the premises becomes an offense, in many instances there are specific legal requirements for the size, wording, and placement of such signs. Really, there's no substitute for knowing the law. A very good place to start is http://www.handgunlaw.us/
 
Unfortunatly it happens

And as a lawful member of society
remember that you obey the laws, even if you don't agree
and now you all can flame me for not being observant
I admit it, I forget and have to do the pocket dance and excuse myself to go disarm in the car sometimes, and while the title may not be the best phrasing, I think that he raises a valid issue of what do you do, when you encounter the gunbuster.
 
As an aside, perhaps you and your friends could all call the management of that Museum to see if they might change their policy on CCW.
 
and will back on out of here with this post

Don't rush off. I just wanted to try and fix things so as not to have to remind anyone the hard way how things work around here.

Here's one for you. My wife and I used to visit a relative of hers in a nursing home near here. The front door to the place had a NC approved no-pistola sign posted.

But the back door didn't have a sign posted. Since DW's relative's room was near the back door, that's the way we always went in, and I never saw the sign till one day we went down the hall and I saw it from the back.

So- were we bad to have carried inside there, when we only came and went via the back door, didn't pass the sign, and indeed couldn't even see it from where we were coming and going? DW's relative isn't there any more and we don't visit there any more...

lpl
 
As I understand NC law the business is required to place a sign at every entrance. If they don't, and you can prove you entered through a door without one, that is a viable defense.


I believe the term is criminal intent. you have to have meant to break the law.
 
Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable defense.

We must to stick to the standards of The High Road.
Please do'nt advise another that a violation is acceptable.

Improper sign placement is another, as mentioned earlier.

Don't Ask, Dont Tell won't even work in the Military, how do you think it'll be accepted in the civilian world.
Is it really worth risking losing your guns or CHL? NO!
That's my $.02 today
 
If I'm carrying I know where I can and can't carry. If, as an example, I am going into the post office it comes off and goes in the glovebox, car locked when I exit. When I return it goes back in the holster and I continue my day.

Not to worry, the Government will protect me while I am in the post office. :(

I like to exercise that right and I know if I push the evelope (coincidence? just mentioned the post office?) I could loose that right and have more legal problems than I really want.

Either way, If I don't feel comfortable leaving it in the car while I do my business where ever, I go someplace else or come back another time.
 
Know the laws. Don't carry where its illegal.
In my state, there is no law prohibiting one from carrying in a business where a "no guns" sign is posted. The only legal stipulation is that if you are asked to leave, you must comply under basic trespassing law. As such, I'd pay no attention to such a sign other than to boycott the business that posted it (this doesn't apply as much to malls, etc).
In the case of federal buildings, unless you are aiming to be a potential victim and try the law in court to establish case law, don't do it. I avoid post offices by doing more business with UPS and FedEx. Most of your needs in government offices can be met online or via phone. If you really want to make a big deal of it, leave the gun at home and contact the security people for that building - tell them that because their rules create an unsafe environment, you want an armed escort while in their violence concentration zone.
 
quote from above
"If you really want to make a big deal of it, leave the gun at home and contact the security people for that building - tell them that because their rules create an unsafe environment, you want an armed escort while in their violence concentration zone. "

This is how I consistently deal with the issue here in Oregon. I have to use a cane most of the time due to mobility problems, which places me in a "class", so the security folks tap dance around me for fear of repercussions from the "fringe" So I make a stink, and demand personal security accompany me due to the fact that I am being denied the right to defend myself, which is most often granted, and then I cruise around the building and do my business with my new buddy, make a friend, get them a welcome break from the front desk, have a cup of coffee with them, get all the info that I need to contact the head cheese, and then do the right thing with a letter after I leave. At least it brings the issue to someone's attention one more time in a measurable way. I also request a written response from that head cheese as to how he will deal with my concerns, and similar concerns of others, in the future.

Ultimately, we sometimes have to put ourselves at risk to follow the law and take the high road, but that is the cost of being able to ALWAYS say, at least I followed the rules...
 
I don't want to get into things too deep, but there are SOME "restricted areas" where an unauthorized person carrying a gun WILL be detected, WILL be arrested and WILL go to prison. That is if he doesn't decide to do something stupid, in which case he won't have to worry about prison or anything else. I have been in plenty of those areas and believe me, the security people DO mean business.

And there is NO WAY anyone except a member of the security force is going to be allowed to carry a gun in or into those areas, CCW or not, good guy or not, badge or not. Doesn't matter. Don't ask. Don't even think about it.

Jim
 
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Know the laws. Don't carry where its illegal.
Click to expand...

Ditto...

Any business that posts a valid and legal "no guns for citizens who actually follow the laws" sign is not worthy of my business imo...
 
In Arizona, the no-firearms signs rely on a trespassing statute. Therefore the worst they can do is ask you to leave. Additionally, the only person you are legally required to tell the truth to when asked whether you have a firearm is a law enforcement officer.

That being said, the likelihood of someone asking is extremely low due to it being very untactful of them to ask something like that, and the regularity with which people carry various innocent items on their belts. A manager or other staff member is not going to approach someone because of a mere bulge and utter the words "firearm" or "gun". After all, if such words are overheard by other patrons, it might cause panic or hurt business, and it could be very offensive to someone wearing a medical device. A mere suspicion is not enough. They would actually have to see it before they would even consider approaching you on it. And if that happened to me, I would graciously offer to leave and not come back.

I know the law, and I know how businesses think. I'm not breaking the law or advocating doing it. I am just exercising my legal freedoms to their fullest extent, and not holding myself back to some artificial line that people would like to think holds legal standing. The law is clear, and I follow the law.
 
I agree entirely with what WardenWolf wrote. The law is similar here in WA, and I will promptly remove myself from a business - if asked for whatever reason - rather than trespass.

It is VERY unlikely they would have a reason to do so.


Off-topic slightly...I was standing with my family outside a pizza joint the other day when my 6-year-old grandson discreetly observed, "Grampa, that guy has a gun."

Curious (because I hadn't noticed) I asked, "How do you know?"

"Because it was sticking out of his pocket."

I mention this because - as observant as he is - he's never seen mine.
 
I would bet that at one time or another a good many long-time CCers have inadvertantly entered a Post Office or firearms restricted building/area without immediately realizing they were armed. You turn around and walk out if this happens. Chalk it up to being human and resolve to try harder next time.
 
Utah is easier than most places, not nearly as many restricted places. I can carry in banks, bars, schools, colleges, etc.

I haven't been in a post office in years. National parks now allow carry. The only thing that really puts a dent in my carrying is the fact that I spend a lot of time on military bases, and if I know I will be going on one I have to leave the gun home.

We follow the law, period. If you have an "inadvertant" mistake from time to time, you need to make sure you don't do it again.
 
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