CCW/Carry: Best example to tell an Anti-Gunner - Road Rage

[pockets]

An off-the-wall 'road rage' incident was what prompted me to get my CHL.

Another factor is that any 'safe neighborhood' has streets running through it.
Just this week my extremely quiet/safe neighborhood had two different police chases in it;
One involved two guys shooting at policemen near a nightclub, then being chased past my house, ending with the suspects crashing a mile down the road and both dying.
The next night, a guy robs a store, 130mph chase down one freeway, across another, up another (completely encircling my area), then the chase went right into my neighborhood and ended with the suspect apprehended on foot a couple blocks from my front door....so much for my nice/safe neighborhood.

One never knows.
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[goon]

As far as the cost (in money) of owning guns and being prepared, I guess that never occurred to me.

At least for me, there really isn't a cost involved with owning guns for preparedness/defensive reasons. I like guns. I spend money on them and will always own them anyhow. They are money spent mostly for enjoyment/recreation, but with added defensive benefits that come along for free.
The only cost for me really is the cost of my CCW permit, which is something like $25 for five years. I'd prefer not to need a permit, but $5 per year to carry legally and have peace of mind is worth it.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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Here is an example that happened today where if the victim had a gun he might not have been assaulted. It also doesn't mean he has to shoot his assailant.


Luckily the assailant didn't attempt to run down the victim as happened earlier this year in MN.



http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/06/17/pedestrian-punched-in-intersection-rage-incident/

Pedestrian Punched In Intersection Rage Incident

June 17, 2011 3:12 PM

ST. PAUL (WCCO) – Police are investigating after a pedestrian was attacked in an apparent road rage incident in St. Paul.

Police said the incident happened at the corner of Selby and Lexington on Thursday evening.

A driver was blocking the crosswalk and a pedestrian knocked on the driver’s window, yelling at him that he was in the way.

Police said the driver then got out of his black Ford Edge vehicle, chased the pedestrian, punched him and knocked him down. Witnesses saw the man punch the pedestrian a few more times before getting back into his vehicle and leaving.

The pedestrian had a swollen lip after the attack. Police did not say if he sustained further injuries.

There were several children in the car at the time of the incident. The vehicle had red dealer plates.

The suspect was described as a man around 40 years old, measuring just under 6 feet with short reddish-blonde hair.

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[orionengnr]

I'm not sure - are there any states that consider carrying a loaded firearm in the passenger compartment of an automobile "open" carry? To my knowledge, this is always considered CCW carry & requires a permit except for states that don't require a permit for CCW.

Texas.

 

[Travis McGee]

Don't tell, don't justify. Keep it a secret among your close gunnie friends.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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Luckily Wisconsinites will be able to CCW soon. Sadly it was too late for these poor folks today.



http://www.wisn.com/r/28774396/detail.html#.Tjv6fFOSies.facebook

Police Investigate Multiple Beatings Near State Fair Park

Several Law Enforcement Agencies Responded To Area Late Thursday Night



Police said the group of young people attacked fair goers who were leaving the fair grounds. Police said that some victims were attacked while walking. They said others were pulled out of cars and off of motorcycles before being beaten

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[mortablunt]

I simply don't go armed most of the time because I'm not yet of handgun (carry peice) age. If I'm going to a range or something like that, then I'll OC a rifle or shotty. Occasionally, if I'm going to be in a place that might prove hazardous, I'll CC a tanto or some other knife.

 

[chhodge69]

I avoid any specifics because it just opens the door to a counter argument. My go-to line for anti-gunners is some variation of:

'You're right, I don't need a gun all the time. I've been carrying for years and I've never needed it yet. I'm just not smart enough to predict when exactly I will need it, so I carry one all the time.'

 

[Iramo94]

I live in a safe neighborhood, but I still have locks on the doors.
I don't expect my house to burn down, but I still have insurance.
I don't expect to be in a car wreck, but I still wear my seat belt.
I don't expect to loose my job, but I have savings just in case.
I don't expect anything to happen to my young children, but I still keep an eye on them.
I don't expect to die early, but I have life insurance.
I don't expect my computer to break, but I backup my important files.

I don't expect anyone to threaten my life, but I'm prepared for that too.

I'd like permission to copy-pasta that in a response to a friend who is a stout anti. Awesome statement.
------------------------------------
Back on topic: I find it best to deal with tailgaters and road ragers by simply letting off the gas. If I'm on a surface road with no minimum speed, I'll coast down to fifteen or less to get them to pass. The best gun related encounter is no encounter. My $0.02

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

A good deal of crime happens in "nice" areas, because that is where all the good stuff is.

A LOT of property crime - vandalism, burglary, B&E, ect.

Rest assured, that the shadowy corners of every golden facade hold a few thugs looking to make a buck.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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Here's a perfect example. The off-duty officers although probably armed did the right thing, which is get the cars license plate number and call 911 letting uniformed officers handle the situation.



It could have happened differently and if the bad guy had rammed someone off the road or gotten out of his car with his gun, a civilian who wasn't armed could have been in a lot of trouble. Or the deputies could have been in trouble if he had done either of these to them and they weren't armed. (Many cops do not carry off-duty.)




http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/...l&utm_campaign=road-rage-directed-at-deputies

Authorities: Man Directed Road Rage At Off-Duty Deputies

October 19, 2011 10:49 PM


ALEXANDRIA (WCCO) — A moment of road rage backfired on a western Minnesota man when he allegedly directed his anger at two off-duty sheriff’s deputies.

“All of the sudden, he displayed a hand gun that they could clearly see,” said Brejcha.

.

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[hso]

Nope and it makes you sound like you're engaging in fantasy to "excuse" your "need" to carry a gun.

The proper response to an erratic driver is to get off the road and let them go on their way. Call the cops, give them the description of the vehicle and plates (if possible).

You're not going to sell someone that doesn't carry using road rage as an example.

OTOH, you have a perfectly good answer when pointing out that low crime rates don't mean NO crime. Just like low residential fire rates don't mean no fires or low accident rates don't mean no accidents. A responsible person acknowledges that fires and accidents do occur, take measures to mitigate the potential and severity of the fire or accident and, as a last resort, put together the equipment and get the training to deal with them when all the measures taken to prevent them fail. Same with the personal safety issue of defense. We do what we can to prevent encountering someone face to face that threatens our safety, but we make sure that we can respond productively if those measures fail.

 

[SARDiver]

I think it's bad advice to say that when you pull, you must shoot. Terrible advice, actually, both morally and legally.

If I am in fear of losing my life enough to draw a handgun, I do so to make the threat stop.

If I have pulled a weapon and my assailant(s) stop the action that is causing me to fear for my life, the weapon has served its purpose. If I display it MERELY to scare them, that's a problem. I won't be the least bit concerned if I pull a weapon and end up NOT having to pull the trigger. In fact, if I go ahead and shoot, even if the threat to life has ended, I would end up in far worse trouble.

 

[ShawnC]

You CCW guys are all paranoid scaredycats. It's ridiculous to carry a gun with you everyday...
I only carry on days I know I'm going to be robbed...

 

[doc2rn]

I was attacked by a TSA agent and his father out in the middle of nowhere Ohio back in '09. He was doin 30 in a 45 and the lady in the Mercedes SUV behind me kept honking. He thought it was me (horn didnt work on my car), and proceeded to try and pull me out until I pulled my glove box gun and placed it on the passenger seat. He tried to work it up with local LEO, to bad for him I called 911 the moment he tried to open my door.

Long story short, he got a $600 road rage ticket and mandatory anger management class, SUV lady also called 911 on him so I was cleared. Still didnt block me from having to hire an attorney at $150/hr.

If I had to do it again I probably would just shoot him for the aggrevation. Too bad I had to be the bigger man. (LEO advised the same)

It can happen anywhere and anytime.

 

[heeler]

If I recall correctly one of the first legal shoots with a Texas CHL holder after the law went into effect was behind a road rage issue with the the person getting shot stupidly punching the seated CHL holder.
And since we are on the subject of road rage I got a first hand look at it on the freeway just this past Monday coming home from work between a guy in a Dodge Caliber and another in a Tacoma pickup.
These idiots put several people in potential danger with their silly antics.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

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My dad's uncle who was in his early 80's told me a story a few Christmas's ago. He said he was driving home and saw a road rage incident. He said the victim slowed down and wen tot teh right lane but the suspect kept following him. He said the victim an elderly man then pulled over to the shoulder. He said the suspect then got out, went to the victim's car, pulled him out and started punching him repeatedly.

My dad's uncle said if he could have done something he would have had he been a younger man. In the end the elderly victim was left unconcious on the ground and my dad's uncle had called 911 and an ambulance. The suspect fled.


With a permit to carry and a pistol he might have been able to stop the brutal assault.
.

 

[Azaraith]

.
Here is an example that happened today where if the victim had a gun he might not have been assaulted. It also doesn't mean he has to shoot his assailant.


Luckily the assailant didn't attempt to run down the victim as happened earlier this year in MN.



http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/0...rage-incident/


Quote:

Pedestrian Punched In Intersection Rage Incident

June 17, 2011 3:12 PM

ST. PAUL (WCCO) – Police are investigating after a pedestrian was attacked in an apparent road rage incident in St. Paul.

Police said the incident happened at the corner of Selby and Lexington on Thursday evening.

A driver was blocking the crosswalk and a pedestrian knocked on the driver’s window, yelling at him that he was in the way.

Police said the driver then got out of his black Ford Edge vehicle, chased the pedestrian, punched him and knocked him down. Witnesses saw the man punch the pedestrian a few more times before getting back into his vehicle and leaving.

The pedestrian had a swollen lip after the attack. Police did not say if he sustained further injuries.

There were several children in the car at the time of the incident. The vehicle had red dealer plates.

The suspect was described as a man around 40 years old, measuring just under 6 feet with short reddish-blonde hair.

The pedestrian was being a bit of a jerk there - just walk around, no need to yell at someone for "getting in the way" when it only takes you an extra 3-4 seconds to walk around...

 

[asia331]

You know in response to an anti who insists that you don't need to carry you could always reply"..you're probably right...nevertheless I choose not to bet my family's safety on a presumption...have a good day sir."

 

[ChCx2744]

Here's how I see it: Using that scenario against an anti is moot, IMO. They're just going to turn around and come up with more excuses (rational or not) until they *think* they're right, or you just give up out of frustration.

In reference to the scenario: If you're at a light and can't go forward, turn or reverse without endangering the lives of others, then the first thing you need to do is make sure all the doors are locked and windows are up. Assuming you don't have enough time to dial or call anyone, prepare for the worst; in this case the worst being him smashing your window and hitting you with the tool. If you're CCing, it should have already been drawn. Sneezing distance + the immediate threat of great bodily harm, death or great damage to immediate place of habitation has warranted deadly force. Given you can't turn or reverse, there's probably other people in traffic. A majority of the time, others are probably already on the phone with 911 explaining what's going on. Regardless, deal with the perp first and make the call yourself once you feel it's safe to do so. Hey, if someone wants to box you in and take advantage of you violently while your escape is impeded, I am sympathetic to those who are willing to use deadly force to defend themselves. Some may argue you have to let him crack your skull open first before defending yourself, but I respectfully disagree.

 

[jonn5335]

I carry because I live more in the country and often run in to people I know while fishing and have shooting competitions on the river to pass the time I also carry because I am a hunter and my pistol is legal for year round hunting yotes and other critters and then there is you never know when the zombies are coming

 

[ExTank]

Several years ago, I was coming north/east on Colorado 24 out of the 'Springs to pick up I-70 east for St. Louis. While passing through Calhan (IIRC) there was some road construction going on, shutting traffic down to one lane that alternated direction every few minutes, causing a bit of a traffic snarl. Some guy in a pickup apparently felt that waiting his turn like everyone else was not his thing, and tried to force his way (against on-coming traffic!) to the head of the line.

I was in a Jeep Cherokee at the time (God, why did I ever sell that truck???), and pulled out to block said "guy in pickup" (see, I'm observing THR guidelines by NOT calling him what eveyone knows he is).

"Guy in Pickup" goes slightly berserk, but he has to wait like everyone else for their turn to go through the one-lane construction segment.

On the other side of the construction zone, "guy in pickup" pulls alongside me and pulled out a large-ish revolver and "flashed" it at me (not pointing it at me, but holding it up clearly for me to see, as if to say, "See what I got? Mess with me again and you'll get some of this!" I particularly recall the way his face was twisted/distorted with anger.

I smile cheeriliy and wave and show him my PT-92.

"Guy in pickup" gets an look on his face, puts down his large-ish revolver , and meekly drives away.

And before anyone bags on my Taurus, I've put hundreds, maybe even into the thousands, of rounds through it with minimal fuss (except for one time when I got ahold of some really crappy MilSup ammo that probably got diverted off the back of a truck on its way to being disposed of/destroyed).

God, why did I trade that gun?

 

[chhodge69]

Road rage is a great example, but I prefer to steer the conversation away from specifics and toward principles. Hoplophobes tend to form their opinions based on fears, emotions and bad experiences. Stating any example of a problem you can solve with a gun only reinforces their "wild west" paradigm.

 

[gym]

Because we had 37 home invasions last month in Indian river and Palm Beach countys. Those people were home. They were't bothering anyone or going anyware. How do they account for that?

 

[gunnutery]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but a little while ago, I thought of another car related argument for CCW. It's based on trust though not fear. I've never used the example, so I'm not sure how good of one it is:

While driving down the road, people are pretty trusting of on-coming traffic. Unless you see someone swerving/weaving or generally just being stupid, people pay little mind to on-coming traffic just a few feet away. The people that shouldn't be driving eventually are found out and have their license taken away or have heavy fines as punishment. Not to say that such people don't drive, they do, but all the reason to be on YOUR game. But the majority of people that are passing you are trust worthy people and will stay in their lane. We prove they are trustworthy by eating/talking/adjusting the radio while obeying the laws and staying in OUR lane, just as we trust the other person will as well. The same is true for CCW permit holders, 99% of us obey the laws and mind our own business.

I dunno, it's not a perfected example, but it's something I've been thinking about.