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CCW holder ambushed and killed after news publishes his name

Discussion in 'Legal' started by thefitzvh, Aug 4, 2004.

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  1. thefitzvh

    thefitzvh Member

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    Good Grief...

    There needs to be some kind of consequence for whoever decided to release those names.


    Days after Plain Dealer ''outing''; CHL-holder Bill Singleton is dead
    Posted on Wednesday, August 04 @ 09:49:29 EDT by chad



    Compiled from news reports at Cleveland.com, NewsNet5.com, and WKYC.com.

    August 4, 2004

    Less than a week after the Cleveland Plain Dealer published Bill Singleton's name among a list of people who have chosen to obtain a license to bear arms for self-defense, Mr. Singleton is dead.

    When three robbers came to Singleton's business Tuesday morning - they allegedly shot before Singleton had time to react to their demands.

    In an exchange of gunfire, Singleton and a 17-year-old assailant were shot in the parking lot outside the United Check Cashing store on Lake Shore Boulevard near East 156th Street. Both later died at Huron Hospital.

    “As I was outside I had seen a person stumbling,†Perry Roberts said. “He had his pistol in his hand and he was saying ‘somebody help me, somebody help me’ and he fell down on the ground.â€

    Cleveland police said Singleton was shot once in the chest, and he shot 17-year-old Rhyan Ikner once in the head. The two accomplices that witnesses saw with Ikner have not been found, said police Lt. Wayne Drummond. It was unclear Tuesday whether Singleton was shot by Ikner or one of the other robbers, Drummond said.

    Attacker had criminal past

    Ikner was arrested in March on aggravated robbery charges after police said he held up two men with a handgun.

    The victims failed to appear in court for trial, and the charges were dropped on June 17. Ikner was released that day from the Cuyahoga County Jail.

    Ikner also was found delinquent six times in Juvenile Court since 2001 on charges of drug possession, drug trafficking and assault, court records show.

    Victim Was Caring, Respected Citizen

    Friends described Singleton, 59, of Solon, as a kind man who was active in the neighborhood merchants association, and who sought to help lift up the nascent retail district surrounding his business, which opened last year.

    "He treated everybody so decently," said Ward 11 City Councilman Mike Polensek, who was supposed to meet Singleton on Thursday to talk about the neighborhood.

    "[He was a] good man who cared about his family, who cared about his neighborhood [and] made an investment in here," Councilman Mike Polensek said. "Here's another, decent black businessman, an African-American businessman gunned down, for what, because he made an investment in our city. We are being preyed upon by predators and we have got to send a message to the predators that it's over. You can't continue to do this.

    It is not yet known Polensek has a history if support for the right of citizens to bear arms for self-defense.

    The Need to Bear Arms For Self-Defense

    But Singleton also worried that his business would attract thieves. He said he was robbed at least twice, and he was planning to buy surveillance cameras to mount outside the store, said Brian Friedman, head of the Northeast Shores Development Corp.

    Records show Singleton received a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

    "He was scared," Friedman said. "He had a sneaking suspicion this would happen."

    Ray Beverly, who manages the video store across the street, says he could have easily been killed like Singleton because he was just robbed at gunpoint Monday afternoon.

    "He took me into the back room, wanted to know where the safe was, cracked me with his gun, broke my fillings," said Beverly. "He took me back to the adult room and told me to stay in there ... that if I came out, he was going to shoot me."

    "It became a war zone in two days," said Beverly.

    People in the neighborhood are scared and angry.

    "It's not safe for any color, any race. It's not safe for nobody any more," said area resident Carolyn Johnson. "I got robbed on East 156th myself."

    This isn't the first time Singleton's life was in danger. One morning in June, Bill Singleton was opening his Collinwood check-cashing store when he had to fend off a would-be robber in a skeleton mask. Though the man had a gun, Singleton managed to hold the door shut and lock it before calling police.

    Questions which deserve answers

    Why did Cleveland Plain Dealer editor Doug Clifton decide that these innocent, law-abiding citizens, desperate to protect themselves from violent criminals that no gun control law or background check can stop, are the ones needing to be treated like persons of suspicion?

    Why did Doug Clifton act to put people like Bill Singleton at so much risk by revealing to potential attackers that they are armed, and why do they promise to continue to do so?

    Initial accounts say the robbers shot first, ambush-style. Did they know Singleton was armed? Did Bill Singleton die upon Doug Clifton's altar of open records?

    If they're really interested in public safety, why doesn't the Plain Dealer spend its precious page space printing names of persons like these attackers, with violent criminal histories?

    The questions above may yield answers with time. But this one can never be answered:

    How many other would-be victims of Rhyan Ikner will live out their lives because of the heroic actions of Bill Singleton?

    --------

    One Year Ago This Week: TONY GORDON DIED TRYING TO FOLLOW OSHP CAPT. JOHN BORN'S ADVICE

    --------

    Click on the "Read More..." link below to read a tasteless letter to the editor from gun ban extremist Toby Hoover supporting the Plain Dealers' actions.



    August 3, 2004
    Cleveland Plain Dealer

    Bravo to The Plain Dealer. It is not easy making a decision that will provoke gun owners.

    The publishing of the names of those who have been given permits to carry concealed weapons in nine counties in Northeast Ohio was a noble and responsible community action. Ohio legislators passed the bill this year giving an extra privilege to gun owners to be able to carry their loaded weapons in public space. That put each of us at an unwanted additional risk. The legislators did not provide a way for us to inform ourselves about those we feel put us at that risk. They allowed for the secret carrying of guns and kept the identities of those doing so secret as well.

    Any privilege for a few Ohio citizens that affects the entire population should be public record. The gun carriers are not living in isolation. We have a right to know who they are so we can make informed choices. Thanks to The Plain Dealer for providing the service to all of us when the government refused.

    Toby Hoover
    Toledo
     
  2. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Blood on their hands!:fire:
     
  3. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    I smell a major civil lawsuit here.

    hillbilly
     
  4. cordex

    cordex Member

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    *sigh*
     
  5. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    El Tejon said:

    And their heads on a plate!

    While there may not be a legally sound connection, the puplishers of the CCW list bears some degreee of moral and ethical responsability for this. Frelling :cuss:
     
  6. Mark13

    Mark13 Member

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    This is very sad, but I doubt those kids did a lot of newspaper reading.
     
  7. capt_happypants

    capt_happypants Member In Memoriam

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    If it turns out that Ikner knew that Singleton was a CCW-holder, I want to ask Doug Clifton one question:

    "Is the life of one man worth your misguided crusade to out gun owners?"
     
  8. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    G-d-s mercy on the dead man and his family.

    G-d's justice on the staff of the Cleveland Plain Dealer for their outright complicity in this murder!

    :cuss: :fire:
     
  9. capt_happypants

    capt_happypants Member In Memoriam

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    Never assume that the bad guys are dumb.

    Three attackers versus one victim.

    Ikner shoots first without apparent provocation.

    Occam's Razor: they knew that Singleton was armed.

    Congratulations, you self-righteous bastards. A man is dead because you felt that CCW-holders are a greater threat to society than a felon.
     
  10. buy guns

    buy guns Member

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    i think we all knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. i hope the paper that published his name fries.
     
  11. Black Snowman

    Black Snowman Member

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    What's sad is that I'm sure many anti's will read the article, and say "Good, two more gun owners off the streets!" :barf:
     
  12. Carlos

    Carlos Member

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    Going to be following this one closely. I want to see heads roll over this.

    Anybody got the editor's email address?
     
  13. goalie

    goalie Member

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  14. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    sad. hope the paper fries. wonder if lawmakers or governor is liable. doubt it.

    wonder if someone could do time for something like this. although the info was not illegal. info resulting in a murder being released. mans life in danger people trying to kill him/harm him gets CHL paper releases name and he gets murdered. god forbid serial killer uses the list.

    will definately save the news article cause in my state papers release the names of people with CHL.
     
  15. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll be the odd man out on this -

    I don't see any direct or indirect connection between the publication of the CCW list, including Mr. Singleton, and the shooting during a robbery attempt.

    I would more likely suspect that the criminal scum came back better prepared to get in to Mr. Singleton's premises and, probably, to murder him in the process. This due to his keeping the Skeleton Mask attacker out of the business.

    If the accomplices are captured and they reveal that they got the information that Mr. Singleton was a CCW holder and that's why they carried guns and why they shot first then I hope the paper is open to enormous law suites if not a class action type suite as well (El T??).
     
  16. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    The attacker with the skeleton mask was at a different store from the one where Singleton died. As such I doubt very seriously they targeted a different store expecting to nail the guy from the first one. I also doubt they were armed "because" Singleton was. At least one had a history of armed robbery. But I have no doubt the punk fired first based on the Plan Dealer's article.

    If I were Singleton's family I would already be working on the lawsuit and it would be big enough to accomplish one thing: Utterly bankrupting the paper and the editor.
     
  17. Carlos

    Carlos Member

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    I'll be sending Clifton a nicely worded letter tonight, when I get home.

    Personally, I 'm positive the posting of names had everything to do with Singleton's death.

    It gives me great pleasure that Cliffy is starting to suffer a little pain for his actions.

    :)
     
  18. sendec

    sendec member

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    The guy is dead because three hoods shot him - Jumping to conclusions before all the facts are in might not help anyone in the long run.
     
  19. flatrock

    flatrock Member

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    I'm very unhappy with the irresponsible actions of this newspaper editor. I even called his house and left him a message telling him so.

    However, I don't see any evidence linking this shooting to his publishing of the CHL License holders names.

    Integrity in how news is reported isn't a one way street, and I find that inferring that the editor is responsible for this man's death without any evidnce linking the incidents is very distasteful.

    I am a member of the Ohioans for Concealed Carry. They do good work. I don't however approve of how they presented this particular bit of news.
     
  20. goalie

    goalie Member

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    I agree that it is unwise to jump to conclusions, however, I can say with 100% certainty that the publishing of this man's name in the paper contributed nothing to society while possibly contributing to his death.
     
  21. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    A point to consider. If the goblins were smart enough to read paper and make connection between a person in print and one on the street (how exactly did they make the connection? Doubt the info in the paper was organized in a fashion to make it easy to sort for criminal purpose...wasn't sorted by income or such was it? most likely sorted by alphabet or geographic order) and attack three to one how could they be dumb enough to lose one of their own??

    Sounds more like a typical attack by goblins. They are perhaps "street smart" but not skilled with guns or gun related tactics. And learned the hard way what happens when you attack someone who is prepared to fight back (ie guns are not magic wands).

    ***
    If you really want to influence people in your direction being obnoxious or vulgar in comments to non gun owners, fence sitters, or anti gun people isn't going to help. When you do that you feed their fears.

    Most anti gun people IMHO fear damage a gun can do. Which shows they are brighter than some people I have seen in gun shops and gun ranges (pointing "empty" guns at people :banghead: ), at least they know guns are ALWAYS dangerous.

    I suspect anti gun people also know people are always dangerous, but a gun is a force multiplier. An armed person is more dangerous than an unarmed person, in immediate sense. If your at a gun shop or gun range and someone starts acting deranged, say they start cussing out and badmouthing someone else, wouldn't your alert level go up? Wouldn't you view them as a possible threat?

    When you are vulgar/abusive/obnoxious to a non gun person you are acting like a possible threat to them. You should expect them to respond to threats with force (politcal, legal, etc).

    I am getting upset over the immature knee jerk responses being poster here on THR on some threads. You do realize that most anyone can view this board??? How do you think an honest fence sitter would respond to some of these posts?
     
  22. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "However, I don't see any evidence linking this shooting to his publishing of the CHL License holders names."

    Me either.

    Now, if the only thing they stole was his gun, then maybe I'd believe they saw his name and figured they'd steal 'em a gun. Or should I say another gun. Buy if they had a gun, why...oh nevermind.

    John
     
  23. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    What I would like to see come out of this sad event, is a change in the attitude of the paper. That would accomplish a lot IMO.
     
  24. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    flatrock and others who fail to see the evidence, I would argue that presentation of evidence is exactly why one has a criminal and civil trial and before that a proper police investigation.

    The editors of this newspaper should be held responsible civily and criminally. They cannot be allowed to hide behind the alleged "public's right to know."

    I hope the citizens of Ohio call for an immediate criminal investigation of this matter.
     
  25. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    While the actions of the editor are deplorable for printing the names, I agree with those that see no connection between the two at this point in time.

    If you ask those in prison about facing an armed private citizen, they would not.
    I see an armed robbery that would have ended with only the owner being dead if he had not been armed and 3 scum bags roaming the street.

    Its a very sad situation but if the AG's would look at it correctly, being armed eliminated one bad guy from hurting someone else for ever.
     
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