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CCW means Concealed.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by offroaddiver, Jul 20, 2009.

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  1. offroaddiver

    offroaddiver Member

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    I am a mgr at a retail location and personally I've noticed more people concealed carrying. Now I know that "concealment" means that no part of the gun is visible, but there are some people that should use a bit more stealth.

    I guess I am more situationally aware, but there are 3 people that have concealed carry in my store that were so obvious to me that it almost made me laugh.

    First guy was a mid 20s wearing kahki pants, and a Under Armor shirt on.. The spandex type. Of course he had a full sized handgun wearing it in a OWB in 3 oclock and 2 magazine holders at 9 and 8. The entire time he kept pulling his pants up and stretching the shirt over the gun. Kinda felt sorry for him.

    Next guy was wearing... a t-shirt that had the blackwater insignia on it, mesh vest and sweatpants. I almost cried with this guy... he kept having to pull his pants up and spread his legs apart a bit while standing... the mesh vest when he walked opened enough to see the stainles mag on the outside of the holster that had a black polymer handgun in it.

    Today took the cake. older gentleman, wearing the older metal framed range glasses (where the tint is on the upper but lighter on bottom) Grandpa had a pair, A bronze belt buckle that was the ruger insignia. Was wearing one of the "concealment" organizer style holsters that was too small for his because the velcro was loose enough to see the ear when he was facing me and the entire webbing/material gaze the print of a full sized firearm.

    Now for the Q & A? Anyone else see this as often? This was just today, most of the time I just ignore it. Does anyone else check themselves in a full size mirror? All These people were wearing what I would consider OWB holsters... what happened to IWB?
     
  2. larry_minn

    larry_minn Member

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    It could be a business oppertunity. (if your current job will allow it) Make up some "business cards" "Sir or madam, you are not concealing your firearm properly, Call this number to find out about training that will allow you to carry (If you have a permit) a firearm without everyone noticing who looks at you" :) :)
     
  3. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    Here in Arizona, it does not matter because we are an open carry state. I work at a court house and we give people an option: either put the gun in a provided weapons locker or take the gun back to their car. So far, I've personally detected somebodies XD9 that he neglected to take out of his back pack.
     
  4. SHusky57

    SHusky57 Member

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    I feel you.

    The guy's that wear those "concealment" vests that look like a combination of Blackwater gear/fishing vest in Wal-mart.... I mean really, I know it's convenient, and maybe no one can even see that you are carrying but you loook ridiculous and it's kind of obvious to anyone who has ever seen those things in a catalog.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Sure, they could. But maybe they conceal enough to not get hassled 99% of the time and that's good enough for them. If it isn't illegal, and they don't personally care about ruffling the feathers of a soccer mom or two, maybe deeper concealment really isn't a priority for them. I've certainly met quite a few old fellows like that third gentleman you described who really couldn't give a dead rat's behind what anyone else thought about anything -- and could say so with a chuckle and a grizzled smile -- and would be perfectly happy to stand around for a 1/2 hour chatting with the local police (probably shooting buddies of theirs anyway) who responded to that MWAG call. Probably the highlight of their day! :)

    Nope. I'm watchful, and I live in a state with 650,000 LCTF holders, and nope, I don't see this much -- outside of range time, of course.

    Probably a good plan. They're out exercising their rights and certainly aren't harming anyone. If they seem approachable, you might give them a friendly "head's-up" that their butt is out, but otherwise chances are they'll have to talk to enough folks about it from time to time that maybe your input doesn't contribute to their well-being. That's a personal call you'll have to make on a case-by-case.

    Yup. I do. I don't have a desire to intentionally show my sidearm. And there are times when it would be very inconvenient to do so and then I'll be very vigilant. Other days, if I'm just running to the hardware store or out for a bite to eat or whatever, I really don't get too worked up over it.

    I used to carry IWB a lot myself. Even my 629! But it just isn't as comfortable as an OWB holster. I can cover my guns in OWB holsters to my satisfaction and so a lot of the time that's what they ride in. I like having the flexibility of both methods, though. Sometimes you may be concerned with not printing at all and the IWB is worth the trade-offs. There are a lot of folks, though, who have never found a combination of gun and IWB holster that fits them. Whatever works...the first rule is to have the gun with you. The "no printing" rule -- usually -- comes farther down the list.

    I'm pretty careful and probably wouldn't have flagged your heightened level of "gun-radar" -- but the fact those three guys (presumably) go about their daily business concealed as they do means that they don't alarm the vast majority of the folks around them.

    Go ahead and pat yourself on the back: you're at least moderately situationally aware. The vast majority of the public isn't, and these guys are able to choose a more comfortable and relaxed carry method because of that.

    -Sam
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2009
  6. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    I saw a gentleman, who buy my guess should be wearing an XL or larger size t-shirt. This aforementioned shirt size would not have been baggy at all; in fact it's probably a conservative estimate. He was wearing instead, however, what I'd assume was a size M t-shirt, which due to his large stomach size, fell somewhere around his belly button. The 1911 he was carrying OWB on his belt was covered to about the ejection port. BTW, open carry is not legal here.

    The only other guy I've noticed carrying was a maintenance guy who carried a Taurus PT-111 Mil Pro OWB when his shirt got caught on it and he didn't notice.
     
  7. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    Have you ever thought that maybe they don't care if you know they're carrying a gun?

    Sometimes I'll carry a 1911 OWB with a T-shirt over the top half of it. Sometimes the shirt does cover the gun completely, or not at all. Either way, I don't mind.
     
  8. kyo

    kyo Member

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    dude i got told by a cop to put mine away and i live in GA. an OPEN carry state. Yea, I check but i wear tanktops and sometimes it prints but no one even notices cause I wear it IWB
     
  9. LRaccuracy

    LRaccuracy Member

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    Ohio is an open carry and CCW State. You don't want to be caught carryng openly in most towns in Ohio... Try carrying openly in Oregon, Ohio, or even in Northwood. GL
     
  10. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    So long as the CHL holder is conducting themselves in a lawful manner, concerns over 'how concealed is concealed' seems like much to-do about little of substance....
     
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm glad TN did away with the "concealed" part of the carry requirement on the permit just for these reasons. We argued that just having the wind blow your jacket/shirt enough to momentarily expose your weapon would put you in conflict with the law the way it used to be written.

    Usually, the only one that notices that someone might be carrying is another gunny. Most folks never notice one way or the other what anyone is doing/wearing unless it is something remarkably odd/obnoxious. Thank heavens for "condition white".
     
  12. bnkrazy

    bnkrazy Member

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    In TN, OC is allowed with a license. Presumably if they are attempting to conceal, they are licensed. If they are printing or even OCing, it's within the law. They will figure it out soon enough. You could help them out and offer a better solution for carrying, or just sit back and chuckle.
     
  13. Norinco982lover

    Norinco982lover Member

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    I conceal my XD45 in my crossbreed supertuck with only a T-shirt over it. I print a very small amount but carrying IWB at 3:45 I really don't think anyone notices.

    As rbernie said, if you aren't doing anything wrong and are acting perfectly normal than nobody will probably notice.

    It is when you go out of your way to try and conceal that you get caught. I usually just find myself with my right hand in my pocket holding my shirt down. I make myself stop doing that... because it actually draws more attention to me than if I WAS exposing my gun.

    ~Norinco
     
  14. dirt_j00

    dirt_j00 Member

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  15. smith52

    smith52 Member

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    I think those of us that carry are quicker to notice someone else carrying than those who do not carry. I myself preferr concealed carry, but have no issue with other carrying openly, as long as they are carrying safely.
     
  16. Mr_Rogers

    Mr_Rogers Member

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    This comes back to the "hot weather" problem that has been discussed before. You either carry a more concealable firearm or look over-dressed.

    I wear one of the photo jackets and dislike doing it but it is the most convenient way to carry my wallet, cell-phone, pens, papers - and hide a pistol. It is a shame this useful piece of clothing is now associated with wannabees. I concealed carry in two states. The regulations for one say the firearm must be "under your control" (which I take to mean that in a light cordura briefcase is OK), the other says the firearm must be "on your person" which I take to mean in a holster. In both states concealed means concealed.
     
  17. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    While I don't think there is any harm in "printing," since 99% of people don't notice or care, I don't think partial concealment is beneficial to public opinion of gun owners.

    A concealed weapon does not alert people because it's concealed. An openly-carried weapon in a state that allows it (several do not) may alert some but it at least says you've got nothing to hide and that there is nothing inherently wrong with carrying a gun.

    A half-concealed gun on the other hand, gives the impression that the gun needs to be concealed for whatever reason, but that you're lazy or incompetent, or you're not legally supposed to have it.
     
  18. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Or maybe a person with a CPL in a state such as Washington normally open carries, but, say, they get a chill upon exiting a vehicle and just toss on a light jacket and don't particularly care about the visibility or concealment of their gun because they are legal either way or any way in between.
     
  19. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    But what if it's 1/4 concealed? Or 7/8ths concealed? Or 7/64ths? :rolleyes:

    Really, this is starting to seem like a lot of silly over-thinking of a non-problem and projection of insecurities onto others.

    There's one instance where you may have some need to react: If you're in a location with draconian anti-gun laws (like TX or FL mentioned in this thread) ( ;) ) where you must remain concealed -- it would be more than polite to mention to the fellow that he's at grave risk because he's violating the regulations.

    Otherwise, M.Y.O.B. Who died and made you his Momma?

    If it's legal, it's legal. Denigrating folks' choice of cover garment, or lack thereof, or analyzing the totality of their coverage is just playing fashion critic. Let it go.

    IMHO...

    -Sam
     
  20. jojo200517

    jojo200517 Member

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    Yeah concealed means concealed in SC. It's not that dang hard to hide it where it doesn't show, but it is harder to hide it where it doesn't show AND is comfortable. Inside by waist band the holster just makes the already thick weapon thicker and seems to show more. Luckily cargo shorts with large pockets and a long t-shirt to cover pocket opening seems to work well for me. Just have ya belt pulled up tight so ya weapon doesn't pull ya pants down. :)
     
  21. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I don't think the problem is being associated with "wannabees," so much as simply being associated with concealing a firearm. I happened past a fuctioning TV (rare ocurrance for me) at a friend's house the other day and there was a news report about the Pope. The video showed him walking out of a building being followed by a 1/2 dozen athletic, clean-cut young men in blue jeans, polo shirts, Ray-Bans, and photog vests. I wasn't thinking they looked like "wannabees." But I'm pretty certain they weren't carrying film, either.

    Same basic argument with fanny packs. Gunnie folks know what that vest and/or pack mean -- 99% of the time. The rest of society doesn't. If it works for you and meets your own, personal, fashion criteria, go for it. I personally feel silly wearing any of mine off the range because they're covered with competition pins and patches and are only used as IDPA cover garments. But if they weren't, I wouldn't sweat it.

    -Sam
     
  22. Kwanger

    Kwanger Member

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    I agree - CCW should mean concealed.

    I think if everyone had to work for a bit in an environment where if, it was noticed you were carrying, it could put your security/life in danger, there would be a huge change in CCW carry 'styles' and attitudes. I find it amusing how some people carry their weapons and think they are concealed....actually, IMO, it seems that some people actually want to be found out....

    Personally, my carry of choice would be IWB at one o'clock with hang out type shirt. While it ain't the most comfortable method, the reason is you have a lot more control of what's going on with that weapon at all times, so your ability to maintain full concealment and confidence in that concealment is increased. IMO anything past 3 O'Clock represent a potential compromise which may even leave you unawares that your piece is no longer hidden.....it can also lead to a subconcious series of checks to make sure its still hidden, which can also give the game away.
     
  23. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    OC is legal here.

    If I conceal, it's because I want to and because it makes things easier sometimes. If the gun is not perfectly concealed under and all possible circumstances, it's because I don't care THAT much in those circumstances.

    That said, I thought that Under Armor stretch shirts are underwear. That's all I use them for. They make IWB carry more comfortable, and prevent abrasions when spending a long time outdoors hiking around, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  24. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Um, yes, there would. If that were the case. But it isn't and it really isn't an ideal I'm interested in working towards!

    Heck, I think that if everyone had to work for a bit in an environment where insurgents were trying to shoot you or set off car bombs when you walk by, there would be a huge change in the attitudes about folks wearing Level IV armor and trauma plates. But we DON'T...and that's a GOOD thing.

    Are you KIDDING? With your gun poking out from your belly all the time? Right up in front where anyone facing you will notice it? Where your arms don't offer any visual and physical shield to guard its location? Whaddaya, NUTS?

    ;)

    See? Everyone's choices have benefits and detrements. Just because something works for you, makes sense for you, and makes you comfortable, doesn't mean other folks will agree or even (gasp) approve of your choice.

    Again, unless we're all going to go on "Soccer-Mom's Eye for the Gun Guy" and get our wardrobes critiqued, what do you care?

    -Sam
     
  25. DHJenkins

    DHJenkins Member

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    Why don't you just yell out "Hey! Nice gun!"? That would get the point across fairly quickly.
     
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