CCW=No NICS. Does this really happen?

[BlackBearME]

OK, so I don't have a CCW (though my permit's processing) so I've never really paid attention to the details.

While reading Lights Out a couple weeks ago, I took note of the part where it said that TX CCW holders are exempt from the NICS. Then while browsing over a 4473 a little while ago, I noticed the section on "No NICS Check required because....applicant has a permit". (Yes, I've bought many guns before, but never had time/cause to look at the "transferor" section)

While readin the instructions and 27 CFR 178.102(d) it would seem that any license to carry, CCW, etc. which requires a background check would fit the bill. In practice, however, it would seem that many dealers would be lax on checking something like this, or may not even know this was on option.

So what I want to know is how often does this happen? Obviously often enough for Halffast to have known about it, but does this happen anywhere else?

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Happens all the time in Utah. I would assume that other states on this list do the same thing: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/bradylaw/permit_chart.htm

In fact, every time I've been around a gun purchase in Utah in the last few years (several dozen times), one of the first questions the seller asks as they are starting the paperwork is whether the buyer has a CFP. They just call the Utah BCI and verify the permit is valid.

 

[gb6491]

"Happens all the time in Utah."

Ditto Arizona

 

[exar]

Same for IN

 

[waterhouse]

It happens all the time for my customers. In fact, I much prefer it if they have a CHL.

As far as dealers knowing about it, the ATF has a visit with dealers before handing out the FFL. At least for me, part of the meeting was a talk about how to fill out the 4473 if someone had a CHL.

 

[Thumper]

The 4473 has a place for your CHL number. No sweat.

Gunshop fills it out.

Most common thing in the world.

 

[Scanr]

works in Nevada

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Haven't had a NICS call on a gun I've purchased in quite a long time now. Fill out the 4473, hand the dealer both licenses, pay and go home with my new firearm. It's nice.

 

[BlackBearME]

Ok, good to know.
Slightly different question.

How would you handle it if you said "OK, here's my CCW so you don't need to do the NICS" and they looked at you like you had three heads and said "Of course, I have to call NICS for every transaction?"
I mean, I know they probably should know better, and I imagine directing them to "Instructions to Transferor #7" should be sufficient, but has anyone had an experience where they've had to, ah, enlighten a dealer?

 

[igpoobah]

Haven't had a NICS check EVER. They started NICS after I got my CHL. in AR; have CHL, no NICS. Dealers just smile when I whip out the CHL. One less thing for them I guess.

 

[Thumper]

How would you handle it if you said "OK, here's my CCW so you don't need to do the NICS" and they looked at you like you had three heads and said "Of course, I have to call NICS for every transaction?"
I mean, I know they probably should know better, and I imagine directing them to "Instructions to Transferor #7" should be sufficient, but has anyone had an experience where they've had to, ah, enlighten a dealer?

I don't think you understand how common this is. Your scenario would be akin to having to explain to a dealer what a 4473 was.

 

[igpoobah]

I do believe this is regulated at the state level though. Some states the CHL waives NICS requirements, some don't. I think I read that somewhere. Anyone care to verify?

 

[Thumper]

Please see item 23 on this form (scroll down):

http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/Form-4473/ATF-Form-4473.htm

 

[IdahoFarmer]

Works here in Idaho too. You still have to fill out the transfer form, but no NICS check.

Farmer

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

BlackBearME, keep in mind that it is only certain states whose permits qualify as the alternative to the background check. Not just any CCW permit will work.

igpoobah, check the link in post #2.

Probably the best part of the deal is not paying the extra $8 for the background check. The permit pretty much pays for itself just with that.

 

[TexasRifleman]

It's great!

Even if I didn't carry concealed I'd have a Texas CHL for this reason alone.

How would you handle it if you said "OK, here's my CCW so you don't need to do the NICS" and they looked at you like you had three heads and said "Of course, I have to call NICS for every transaction?"

I would find another place to do business because I am clearly in a place that has no idea of the law and I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.

I don't think it will happen though. Maybe in a Wal Mart or some clueless place like that, but not in a gun store.

Anyone in the gun selling business see this all the time.

 

[BlackBearME]

I don't think you understand how common this is. Your scenario would be akin to having to explain to a dealer what a 4473 was.

You're right, I don't, that's why I asked

The biggest reason I ask is that the only place I really go to buy firearms is a large store, dealing in all things outdoors (Kittery Trading Post, I'm sure there are plenty of people who know it) and it seems like the people working at the gun counter have a relatively high turnover rate. I find it hard to believe that all these people have an FFL, so I imagine (but again, don't know for sure) that the owner/store has the FFL and the clerks act as agents. Some of them seem to be, ah, less than knowledgeable as compared to some other dealer/FFL individuals I've known, and I could see myself having trouble with them (it's the kind of luck I have.)

Plus I was hoping someone from Maine might chime in, because, reading the CFR, it does seem like it might vary state-to-state, as igpoobah said. But mostly you're right, I don't know, so I just wanted some input.

 

[JesseL]

How would you handle it if you said "OK, here's my CCW so you don't need to do the NICS" and they looked at you like you had three heads and said "Of course, I have to call NICS for every transaction?"
I mean, I know they probably should know better, and I imagine directing them to "Instructions to Transferor #7" should be sufficient, but has anyone had an experience where they've had to, ah, enlighten a dealer?

In the unlikely event that this happened, I'd probably just shrug and say whatever.

In reality, all the dealers I've dealt with since I got my permit are delighted to not have to call and wait for the NICS approval. I've bought an AR-15, Ruger Blackhawk, and two AK receivers with just my DL and CWP.

 

[BlackBearME]

OK, Jorg, am I mistaken, or was that link (very useful, BTW, thank you) not in your first post when you first posted it? Because I saw your message to igpoobah, and went back and looked, and I don't recall seeing it the first time through.

I'm not too concerned about the fee, as of yet there's no fee here for the NICS. It's just the hassle that I'm more concerned with avoiding. But alas, according to that link, it seems I'm out of luck.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

It wasn't initially, but I added it shortly after posting. Took me a minute to find it.

 

[TexasRifleman]

and I could see myself having trouble with them (it's the kind of luck I have.)

Most of those types of stores have a checklist they follow for their "less than a clue" employees. At my local Wally World the checklist does ask if the purchaser has a Texas CHL, and tells what to do next.

 

[230RN]

Isn't there another exemption for a dealer who knows the purchaser very well and that s/he would be qualified? I seem to recall reading something like that a while ago.

 

[strat81]

I do believe this is regulated at the state level though. Some states the CHL waives NICS requirements, some don't. I think I read that somewhere. Anyone care to verify?

Correct. Here in Nebraska, a CHP/CHL is not a valid substitute for a handgun purchase permit.

 

[anygunanywhere]

Since I have had my TX CHL I have nnever had a NICS check.

Most of the time they say something like "Thank goodness you have a CHL. I don't have to make the call."

I would not buy a firearm from someone who insisted on calling.

Anygun

 

[Wes Janson]

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly positive that here in Florida even if they have a CWP the state requires it to be called in to the FDLE/NICS. It's SOP where I'm at that any firearm being transferred out to anyone has to have a call-in.