CCW on public transit

[kd7nqb]

I rarely ride public transportation but occasionally it is simply easier either because I am working literally right on the MAX train line, or am going to be somewhere where either,
1. Parking is way overpriced and still a pain to find or
2. I dont trust leaving my car for long periods of time.

I was in a totally unrelated discussion with a Tri-Met bus driver and he asked me a question regarding firearms, (we were at a social event not on a bus). We chatted shortly, enough for me to determine that he was definitely pro-gun. Then he said "yea it totally sucks that CCW is banned on public transportation" I asked what he meant and he said that since the bus system gets federal transportation money all firearms are banned.

Now when I look at the tri-met website this is what it has to say regarding firearms.


D. Prohibited Risks to Transit System Security and Order:
(1) Flammable Substances and Ignition Devices: No person shall bring, possess or carry
aboard onto a District Vehicle or platform any flammable substance or device that can cause a
spark or flame, except for matches and cigarette lighters. No spark or flame may be lit or
initiated at any time by any device on a District Vehicle, including matches and lighters.
(2) Weapons: No person, except a peace officer, shall bring or carry aboard a District Vehicle
any firearm, knife (except a folding knife with a blade less than 3 ½ inches in length), or any
other instrument, article, device, material or substance specifically designed for, or attempted
to be used to, inflict or cause bodily harm to another, except in accordance with administrative
rules as may be promulgated by the General Manager or otherwise provided by law. Where
possession of such weapons cannot be prohibited by law, a person in possession of a weapon
may not display or carry the weapon in a manner which is likely to result in fear or alarm by
other persons or District employees.

When I read that it looks like as long as a person has a CCW and does not open carry they are ok?

Am I off base here?

I know there is some sort of "common carrier" regulation that I know NOTHING about.

Any members from Portland had experience with Tri-met and CCW.

 

[Autolycus]

I believe that in your particular case it is an issue with the state government and the city of Portland. I am not 100% sure but I remember reading about Portland trying to ban CCW on their public transit.

 

[kd7nqb]

So no knowledge of federal laws against it? Maybe some bad info, as might be expected.

 

[30 cal slob]

legalities asides (just because a bus gets federal funding, i don't think it's federal property), CCW on public transit, where you are in an enclosed and likely crowded space is tricky.

i have posted here that I (lawfully) drew on some perps on a subway-type train. some of the responding cops didn't care so much that i was CCW'ing, but gave me a stern lecture about being awfully careful about not crossing innocents and causing further alarm and chaos (but i would add that my actions ended the deadly conflict that was taking place at the time without crossing innocents).

in hindsight, i can't really disagree with the LEO's point of view ... so keep that in mind.

 

[pax]

No federal law against it, that's complete and total BS.

Oregon has state pre emption on gun laws, meaning no lesser government such as a city or town may pass laws more restrictive of firearms carry rights than the state ones.

There is no state law in Oregon banning firearms on public transportation systems.

The section from the Tri Met website you quoted is a city ordinance. But with state pre emption on gun laws, Portland cannot legally enforce a city ordinance against carrying a gun on Tri Met. Which is why the regulation against weapons is weasel-worded; they don't want to admit they cannot outright ban lawful concealed carry.

That won't stop them tossing you off the bus and totally ruining your day if they catch you carrying a gun on there, even if you don't ultimately go to jail over it.

pax

 

[Cougfan2]

Moscow on the Willamette

I too live in Portland and have a CCW. I don't care what they say, I will not go unarmed when riding MAX. I've come home from some Portland Beavers games when some pretty salty folks have been on the train! It seems like every week you hear about someone being assaulted at a MAX station.

I say be discreet and continue to carry. Push comes to shove, I'd rather leave in handcuffs than a bag!

 

[texas bulldog]

i've been wondering about this same issue in texas, actually. in austin, the buses all have a sign saying that carrying weapons is prohibited. however, they are not in the format of the state-mandated 30.06 sign. i know a vehicle is not the same as a building, but i figure i am legally free to ignore these signs at my discretion. anyone in texas care to comment on this?

 

[wdlsguy]

Texas Bulldog, I am not a lawyer, but as long as the bus isn't owned by a "school or educational institution", I can't see a problem.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/pdf/pe.010.00.000046.00.pdf

 

[Notch]

As we say... Concealed means concealed.

 

[Gray Peterson]

The driver is a complete moron, and I've heard this tripe before. The wording isn't weasel worded against concealed carry, it is weasel worded against open carry.

I actually directly challenged TriMet on the issue earlier this year. They changed their rules three years ago to allow carry but they allowed the weasel worded statement to try to give the perception that they are baning open carry (CCW is never going to be a real issue on TriMet property since concealed means concealed).

I actually testified in front of the TriMet board warning them that any actions against lawful open carriers by their preempted statute would result in massive legal retaliation, and even better, I have it on video that they were warned of the statute's invalidity which will be exhibit A of any court filed case.

The TriMet Legal Advisor (Brian Playfair) advised the board that the intent of the language was to prevent people doing draw tactics on the TriMet buses, to which I advised that A) Is already illegal under state law to do and B) That isn't what Playfair's subordinate stated, who stated it was an open carry ban.

To give an idea, I open carried in downtown Portland from Lloyd Center to downtown on the MAX train during the Sunday of Portland Pride. No one challenged me, and no one stopped me.

It is legal to open carry statewide if you have a CHL, regardless of local laws that ban loaded firearm carry. Only cities and counties may pass such bans. Districts may not, and TriMet is a district.

 

[Kevin108]

The VCDL here in VA is in the process of addressing this problem on our local public transportation system of buses and ferries. They have a "no weapons" policy but 75.4% of their funding comes from public money so they should be considered a public entity who has to abide by preemptive state law.

 

[spocahp anar]

I wonder how it can be illegal to carry in government buildings such as courthouses and public facilities and yet be perfectly legal to carry on the bus. Both are city property aren't they.

If the sign as one poster said doesn't meet state mandated guidlines then it is ineffective; however it won't stop you from having a nice frinedly trip downtown and some nice legal fees to go along with it.