CCW question to peeve everyone

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Weezulguy

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I've been working on finding a good CCW handgun for awhile now, and here are my thoughts up to this point:

1. I do not like small polymer pistols. I purchased an LCP last year, and didn't like the kick, too much time spent reacquiring on the target. Beat the hell out of my hand too. I want something I WANT to practice extensively with.

2. I DO like old Saturday night specials. I bought an older Tangfolio GT27 .25 off a friend awhile back, the weight feels just right. Not too much kick, but I've been having some problems with the safety hanging up, the design lends something to be desired as far as flawless operation.

3. I'm not made of money. At this point, even the .32 and .25s are a turnoff for me because I want to shoot, and I want to shoot it extensively.

4. I do not see the need to kill someone. I appreciate the higher calibers and what they're designed for, and I know everyone is going to throw the argument up about crazed druggies not stopping no matter what, but honestly, I feel that if I throw a couple of rounds at someone no matter what the pistol is, I'm pretty sure they're going to turn tail. Yes, if they're armed, then it's a different story. Still hoping I'm the better shot.

So I settled on the idea that I'm in the market for a .22 semiautomatic pistol, and after thoroughly researching today's options, I can't find anything that sounds decent. The closest I can see to what I might like is the Beretta Bobcat and the Taurus PT22 series. Unfortunately most of the reviews I read indicate that both of these have a tendency to hang on rounds until some work has been done on them, I find this unacceptable for a brand new pistol in today's age with technology.

That being said, I also started reading into the 22LR/9mm conversion stuff, which seems like a great concept. I can't find a subcompact with this option to save my life though. I suppose the market will get there eventually, but I'd sure like to see some models to pick from now.

Comments, advice, suggestions? I'd love to find an old steel 22 semi pocket gun that has stood the test of time, but I don't come across anything in my searching.
 
...if I throw a couple of rounds at someone no matter what the pistol is, I'm pretty sure they're going to turn tail. Yes, if they're armed, then it's a different story. Still hoping I'm the better shot.
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You might be better off not carrying a gun. At least until you get the proper mindset. First, you're going to have to get serious about your intentions when it comes to self defense. Whether you like it or not, you own every bullet that leaves your gun, so you need to put them exactly where they will be most effective. Warning shots are about the most foolish idea from a legal standpoint.
 
The idea behind Carry is to shoot to stop. 9mm and up are the best calibers for this. You want to stop the attack as fast as possible. .22LR can do the job but it's not the best tool for the job.
 
Weezulguy said:
I've been working on finding a good CCW handgun for awhile now, and here are my thoughts up to this point:

4. I do not see the need to kill someone.

Comments, advice, suggestions?
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Buy some pepper spray.

You're nowhere near ready to carry a gun, any gun, for personal defense.
 
Any gun is better than no gun but trying to ice pick my way through some guy with a .22 would not be something I would be really confident in doing.
Lastly,it's been my experience that a semi auto .22 is not all that reliable feeding and sometimes firing of the cartridge due to it being a rim fire.
I happen to own a little nifty Kel-Tec P32 that has never missed a beat in the several hundred rounds of operation and I would happily take that over the .22.
 
The bigger calibers are not used because they are more likely kill. They are preferred because they are more likely to neutralize a threat before it neutralizes you. However, that being said, you are correct that in the vast majority of encounters the bad guys run as soon as shots are fired. That's probably due to a desire for self preservation as well as to not get caught. However, they do often return fire as they run and will fight if feel cornered. Then there is still that smaller number who are drugged up or mentally deficit who will just shoot it out. Guys who go on killing rampages usually have no intention of surviving so if you're in a McDonalds and some nut decides to shoot it up with something substantial a .22 will feel very small very quick. In my view, if you are going to go through the hassle of carrying it's very little more hardship to carry something that covers you better in more possible scenarios, as in not a 22. A 22 is obviously better than nothing but a 9 is also better than a 22. In regards to proper mindset and all that, countless people have succesfully used guns to defend themselves who had little or no preparation aside from buying a gun. The only important thing is knowing you will use the gun if need be or else it could potentially make things worse for you. If money is that big a concern simply get a Keltek PF9. Recoil isn't too terrible and can be mitigated by ammo selection. Just shoot it enough toi very reliability with the ammo you will carry as they can be finicky, in my experience.
 
The best weapon in your arsenal, is that mass inside your skull, commonly referred to as your brain. If your mindset is not survival, then you won't survive.

John Bernard Books (John Wayne, in "Shootist") -

Sometimes it isn't being fast that counts, or even accurate; but willing. Most men will draw a breath or blink an eye before they shoot. I won't.
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There's an old saw out there about a Texas Ranger, who was asked why he used a .45 Colt revolver. His reply - "Because they don't make a .46."

While you can end up with caliber envy. Get a gun that's big enough to stop the threat. The .22 can kill you deader than a door nail, but I'd never trust my life to one, and I will shoot to stop the threat.
 
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Also the inaccuracy of those little .22s can mean missed shots & stray bullets hitting a bystander. I agree that the "if I send a few shots their way I think they'll take off" mindset is the wrong one to have when you're talking about carrying a deadly weapon for defense. Sounds like you should carry nonlethal measures instead and hope for the best or re-examine your mindset.
 
1. I do not like small polymer pistols. I purchased an LCP last year, and didn't like the kick, too much time spent reacquiring on the target. Beat the hell out of my hand too. I want something I WANT to practice extensively with.
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Same here. I like sub compact glocks, xd's and m&p's for this role.

2. I DO like old Saturday night specials. I bought an older Tangfolio GT27 .25 off a friend awhile back, the weight feels just right. Not too much kick, but I've been having some problems with the safety hanging up, the design lends something to be desired as far as flawless operation.
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If it isn't reliable, I don't want it no matter how bad I want to like it.

3. I'm not made of money. At this point, even the .32 and .25s are a turnoff for me because I want to shoot, and I want to shoot it extensively.
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Same here. I shoot mostly 9mm for that reason.

4. I do not see the need to kill someone. I appreciate the higher calibers and what they're designed for, and I know everyone is going to throw the argument up about crazed druggies not stopping no matter what, but honestly, I feel that if I throw a couple of rounds at someone no matter what the pistol is, I'm pretty sure they're going to turn tail. Yes, if they're armed, then it's a different story. Still hoping I'm the better shot.
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I'd rethink that. I've worked around law enforcement for most of my career. I've heard too many first hand stories of people taking hits with service calibers and not running to rely on fear as a tactic. I also can speak from experience with the 22 because I was actually shot with a cci stinger from a 6" barrel. Victim of someone's ND. Zero stopping power. I was 17 and maybe 145lbs soaking wet. I honestly tried to figure out where the shot went before I realized I was hit. It most certainly will not cause an aggressive attacker (really, are there any other kinds?)to turn tail and run.

Of course there are documented cases of one shot instant fatalities with a 22...but that is pure luck and the right spot was severed. That isn't something you can aim for, that's something you hit in the general area and hope for. Also, factor in the lack of stopping power. Those are luck shot that severed the right artery...a slight miss wouldn't cause any stopping power, just a tiny hole and no pain until several minutes later (by which time the attack will be over for better or worse).
 
Okay, SWAT teams are not goal oriented to kill, right? They are goal oriented to arrest. Name for me all of the departments who use a .22LR as a primary weapon...

Now, the legal part: any use of a firearm will be considered "deadly force" in court. Doesn'[t matterif it's a .22 or a .44. Fire the gun and you have used deadly force. Why in God's name would you carry a gun--ANY gun--if your goal is to intimidate by "firing a couple of rounds in their direction? It's the same charge as if you shot him! And if you shoot the bad guy and hit him, you'll do less damage to the folks behind him as opposed to wildly sending rounds downrange in an effort to get him to run.

Dude, your thinking on this is flawed, badly. Do us a favor and don't carry a gun until you get your head on straight.
 
Um, guys, note the title of the post. The OP is actually telling us he/she is a troll.

Don't feed the trolls, please.
 
I agree with the concensus here. You don't sound like you have the right mindset.
Shoot to stop, not kill.
The stopping power of service calibers is exagerated. The stopping power of sub-service calibers is chance, at best.
Oh, a .22lr WILL kill somebody...eventually.
Instances of one shot stops with sub-service calibers (or even service calibers, for that matter), they are anecdotal.
Remember too, the psychological effect of being shot, only works if you realize you've been shot. Assuming your in a mental state that lets you contemplate your mortality.
You don't have to be a 300# tweeker with murder in your heart. To not realize you've been shot or mortally wounded.
Central nervous system, vital organs, cardio vascular and structural (leg bones, hip bones, etc..). These stop threats.
 
If one is planning to buy a gun to stop an evil person from doing their deeds one must be prepared to use deadly force or be prepared to die. Never ever plan stop them with less than death.
 
Weezulguy said:
That being said, I also started reading into the 22LR/9mm conversion stuff, which seems like a great concept. I can't find a subcompact with this option to save my life though. I suppose the market will get there eventually, but I'd sure like to see some models to pick from now.
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Glock 26 with the Advantage Arms conversion kit.
 
If this thread is not, in fact, troll efluence?

I can offer feedback on the Beretta 21A ''Bobcat.''

I got one for my wife. Not for defense, just because she wanted one to plink with.
It worked perfectly, with various bulk pack ammo I put through it. EXCEPT...when my kids (11&12) would shoot it. Lot's of failure to feed. I suspect limp wristing?
Double action trigger is lllooonnnggg and heavy.
The slide chewed up the web of my hand, to the point that, I felt silly developing a flinch to this little mouse gun.
Not a target gun but, pretty accurate.
Had to sell because my wife said, it makes her hand ''look fat.''

For a sub-compact .22lr intended for SD? I'd prefer a revolver, if I had to depend on it.

I guess a tiny gun, is better than no gun?
 
4. I do not see the need to kill someone.
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The why are you considering a device that is lethal force?

While larger calibers may be more reliably at stopping folks faster, even a .22RF is capable of being lethal.

Go buy some pepper spray.
 
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