CCW reciprocation w/ carrying someone else's gun?

[Manedwolf]

Doublechecking on this, since I do NOT think it's legal, and I always err on the side of caution, but...

Say you have a CCW in your state, and you're going to visit family in a state that has reciprocation...you can carry there.

If you don't want to deal with checkin-desk hassles and TSA morons perhaps managing to steal the lockbox out of your luggage, and your family has an extra gun of the type you have, and will lend it to you...

Is it generally legal or illegal for you to CCW in a reciprocated state a gun that does NOT belong to you? Neither state registers individual guns on the CCW license.

 

[RRTX]

Why would it be illegal? If you aren't in states that require carried weapons to be individually listed on the license then there would be nothing wrong with it. How are they going to know who it belongs to?

 

[jazurell]

"Neither state registers individual guns on the CCW license."

I think you answered your own question. At least in OH, you have a CCW license. The license makes no restrictions as to the weapon, owner of the weapon, AFAIK. Ohio doesn't require registration, so they wouldn't know to whom the gun belongs....unless it's on a stolen list.

 

[justashooter]

"transfer of a firearm" could be an issue. look in the legal section of the fal files to see the link i posted to "state laws on line" as a sticky. it's in pdf format and also available on the ATF website, but hard to find there.

if transfer of a "firearm" (check the definition - often this term is used in statute to refer to handguns and SBR SBS AOW) is restricted to brady type by the state in which it is to be carried, then loaning someone a gun that leaves the owner without at least oversight of it's use can be illegal.

will you get prosecuted if there is a good shoot? who knows.

will you get prosecuted if there is a bad shoot? most certainly.

sorry for the bad news.

 

[benEzra]

+1. No CCW permit issues, but big potential violations of the 1968 GCA unless you are at all times under the direct supervision of the person who owns the gun. It'd be better to bring your own handgun, IMHO, which is easy to do whether you're driving or flying. (You just can't take a bus.)

 

[7.62mm]

"transfer of a firearm" could be an issue. look in the legal section of the fal files to see the link i posted to "state laws on line" as a sticky. it's in pdf format and also available on the ATF website, but hard to find there.

if transfer of a "firearm" (check the definition - often this term is used in statute to refer to handguns and SBR SBS AOW) is restricted to brady type by the state in which it is to be carried, then loaning someone a gun that leaves the owner without at least oversight of it's use can be illegal.

will you get prosecuted if there is a good shoot? who knows.

will you get prosecuted if there is a bad shoot? most certainly.

sorry for the bad news.

"SBR" ?
"SBS" ?
"AOW" ?

Sorry, but I am not really up to speed on all the jargon, even though I lurk a lot. Could you explain those terms, please?

What is the definition of "Transfer". A "Loan" is a "Transfer of ownership"? Doesn't "intent" carry some weight?

I really don't know, but sounds over-restrictive. After all, the weapon remains in the state, and the borrower cannot sell, pawn, or carry it home with him. Does the borrower really "own" the weapon?

Knowing how Chicken????? the baby-burners can be, you may be right.

Just a few thoughts. Thanks for the time.

Regards,

7.62mm

 

[Rockstar]

+1. No CCW permit issues, but big potential violations of the 1968 GCA unless you are at all times under the direct supervision of the person who owns the gun. It'd be better to bring your own handgun, IMHO, which is easy to do whether you're driving or flying. (You just can't take a bus.)

How about a little quote from the 1968 GCA regarding "you are at all times under the direct supervision of the person who owns the gun?"

 

[Olys45]

Why not have a "private sale" for $1 when you get there and then sell it back to your family member?

 

[Ringer]

No Go in Michigan. Handguns have to be registered to the individual. That goes for CCW or even a trip to the range. I can carry any gun I want that is registered to me but if it's registered to my wife I can't even take it to the range, unless she goes too.

 

[taliv]

man, that sucks. i don't get why people in michigan think their state is so gun-friendly. michigan has crazy gun laws.

 

[wdlsguy]

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
Sec. 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful -
...
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
...

So, is CCW a "lawful sporting purpose"?

 

[carebear]

That's for the appeals court to decide after the DA railroads the first conviction.

Actually, the idea that CCW is legal in the state you are in and you are in effect licensed in that state should help with the "lawful purpose" part of the argument. The "sporting" is what might get you, cause CCW isn't a game.

That word needs to go away from gun related legislation.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

So, is CCW a "lawful sporting purpose"?

You're not serious, are you?
Please, tell me you're joking.

 

[jefnvk]

man, that sucks. i don't get why people in michigan think their state is so gun-friendly. michigan has crazy gun laws.

Because with the exception of that, and the no non-C&R MG's, there is nothing else. Both of which were set up before any federal laws existed, they just need to be removed now.

Personally, I find it hard to believe anyone finds their state gun friendly and downright laughable that anyone finds their are of living free when somewhere, else in their opinion, isn't. I mean, you still have to get a license to carry, and if you are one of the few that doesn't have to do that, you still hve to fill out the now-non-yellow form to purchase a gun from a dealer. Don't suppose you can go buy a H&K UMP45, either, no matter where you are at. Last I knew, about the only guns you were mail-ordering were CMP guns, unless you got yourself special permission

 

[wdlsguy]

You're not serious, are you?
Please, tell me you're joking.

No, I am not joking. The word "sporting" in this statute could cause problems. Carebear is correct, CCW isn't a game.

 

[gunsmith]

also depends on the state

if you visit AK or VT you can borrow a handgun and carry it. my NV permit list the guns I can carry but not their serial number. when I had contact with the Showlow AZ PD (nice folks,real gentlemen) looked at my gun and CCW and never questioned if it was indeed my sp101

 

[Sean85746]

I go to Michigan twice yearly. My Arizona CCW is good there...though MOST of Michigans gun laws have always been draconian, at least they recognize a CCW from ANY state.

I carry a gun that I own, that is kept in my best friend's safe. It is registered to him, as it is illegal for him to have an "unregistered" handgun in his possession, even if it is in his own home. So, technically, I am carrying "someone else's gun".

I avoid the potential for hassles at airports by leaving a spare Glock in Michigan, though I HAVE transported a handgun on a couple of occaisions with ZERO hassle in Phoenix, or in Detroit.

My main concern is a possible theft in transit...not a hassle with airport security. If you follow the rules, you shouldn't have an issue.