Centerfire deer bans? What's the rationale?

[broadsideofabarn]

Now, this is obviously something of a neophyte question, but I've just found out my state permits almost every method of taking deer EXCEPT the most efficient and reliable.

What in the name of Zombie Lincoln is the rational behind such a ban?

EDIT: Oh, sorry, didn't realize I was being vague, but... yeah, I was. Regs say no centerfire rifles period. Muzzleloaders, pistols, shotguns and bows are legal at various times.

 

[R.W.Dale]

please be more specific

 

[AnthonyC.]

Huh?......please be more specific....PLEASE

 

[Ozark Tracker]

certain couties here ban centerfire rifles but allow shotgun slugs, bows, black powder. they say it is because of being around heavily populated area's,

a couple of public hunting area's are restricted also, the reason there is so many hunters afield during the season. they don't want to take a chance on a missed shot carrying too far.

some states have other seasons open the same time as deer season, another of the too many hunters out there to be shooting a rifle.

just a bum deal

 

[cslinger]

Justification is probably due to over penetration or missing. With a rifle round you could technically have a lethal projectile flying a thousand yards or more. With a 12 gauge slug or buckshot your projectile isn't as likely to fly as far, while maintaining lethal velocity.

Chris

 

[john1911]

There is an article in the most recent issue of Guns Magazine debunking the "slugs are safer" theory. Here is a teaser for the story, http://gunsmagazine.com/DSG1107.html. It makes for interesting reading. I'll try to find the study discussed in the article and post a link.

ETA: Found it. http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/

ETA: my link is screwy. Click on the "Reports Released" on the left side of the screen. Scroll down to "Game and Fisheries" and click on the first report. It's a 75 page PDF file.

 

[Sunray]

As daft as it sounds, the Ohio Deer Hunting regs do indeed say:
"Hunt with any rifle other than a muzzleloading rifle .38 caliber or larger during the deer gun, the youth deer gun, the early muzzleloader hunts (Salt Fork Wildlife Area, Wildcat Hollow, and Shawnee State Forest), and the statewide muzzleloader seasons."
"...What...is the rational..." There's nothing rational about any laws anywhere. However, it may have to do with crowded conditions. Have a look at Mapquest, pick any town/city and go to the aerial view. There are houses everywhere. Looks like a giant subdivision. Even in the areas without a lot of housing, there are buildings within a few hundred meters/yards of each other. If you're near Cleveland, it's even worse.

 

[Art Eatman]

In built-up areas where the houses are relatively dense for an urban setting, the ban on centerfire rifles has to do with safety or perceptions of safety.

We had a case not far outside of Austin, Texas, where a guy was killed in his yard while doing some house repairs. .270. Hit him in the head, but not a lot of penetration and no bullet deformation. Nobody around the area heard a shot. Guesstimated that the shooter could have been over a mile away; wouldn't have known what he'd done until he read the newspaper.

The other ban in some states, on the low end against centerfire .22s, stems from the origin of centerfire .22s: Varmint cartridges. Light bullets, designed for rapid expansion. Sure, there are now modern bullets designed for effectiveness on larger critters, but not every .223 guy knows what to use.

Game laws, just like traffic laws, are "aimed" at Joe Average, not Mr. Expert.

Art

 

[El Tejon]

My state has the same inane "no centerfire rifles for deer" rule. You can use your .308 for coyotes, but not deer. It must be the polestar of rules made by those who have no experience with guns. Fortunately, the PA Game Commission study just shot the whole Gunshoppe Commando myth of shotgun slugs being safer to tatters.

Some myths die hard and the whole silly notion that centerfire rifles constitute a greater potential hazard will go down hard, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[CSA 357]

well get you a slug gun, i have one i used on state land in ms, no centerfire rifles, buck shot or slugs only, i got a hastings barrel with the scope mount and never looked back killed some nice bucks with it, i used remington copper solids , no need to fuss learn to adapt! csa

 

[Millwright]

BSOB,

As most have noted, centerfire rifle restrictions are more a 'perception' thing than absolute fact. All firearms, muzzle loaders, CF rifles, or shotguns can be misused to create downrange problems. Its incumbent upon the shooter to not only be certain of his game, but its background as well.

FWIW, I've killed several deer at ranges exceeding 150 yds with a slug from a smoothbore shotgun. I treat shooting them the same as I do shooting CF rifle. MLs shooting bullets rather than round ball have similar ranges IME. >MW

 

[Grumulkin]

Personally, I take some comfort in the fact that come gun season, there won't be a bunch of Bubbas walking around with high power rifles they've only put 10 rounds through in the past couple of years. The fact is that a shotgun slug won't go as far as a rifle bullet.

Ohio is in general different than Pennsylvania; a lot more very flat land. Also, Pennsylvania has its quirks; no semiautos for deer hunting.

 

[SteveS]

Some myths die hard and the whole silly notion that centerfire rifles constitute a greater potential hazard will go down hard, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The incidents with centerfire rifles are so rare that I can't remember one in the last few years. Most of the hunting deaths seem to be from heart attacks.

 

[Bearhands]

I, for one, am very glad our state (PA) does not allow semi's for hunting. I've seen too many "bubbas" @ the range wishin they could "spray" 223's into a nice buck. just my two cents.....

 

[Picknlittle]

I guess I've always thought the issue of missing or over penetration was moot considering that I cannot ever remember shooting at anything except birds and squirrels that did not have a safe back drop. My vantage point always has my line of fire headed for soil or trees. I don't usually shoot to the skyline, I prefer a higher vantage point.

Even shooting squirrels with a .22, I generally shoot them against the tree trunk, cause that's what my dad and granddad taught me.

 

[longboard]

Pickinlittle,
If we all did what our Dad's told us to, we would never have any problems in the woods.
I love to hunt and shoot but some shots just are not safe!
Longboard

 

[B.D. Turner]

It is interesting the size of deer increases greatly in areas where rifle hunting is not allowed.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

yeah, same thing in CT. Rifles are only allowed on private land over 10 acres.

So I can hunt deer with a rifle on behind my parents house (It's 25 acres), but not in a state forest of hundreds or thousands of acres?

Definitely makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[El Tejon]

Grumulkin, have you ordered and read the PA Game Commission report yet? It puts your concerns to rest, e.g. that worry that centerfire rifles are somehow more dangerous than slugs.

This gun shoppe commando myth is destroyed. And thank goodness! maybe now we can have game regulations based on science rather than feelings.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I have a mixed feeling on some of this. In MS, in order to get a hunting license you have to take a hunter education course if you are younger than..50 I think? I have met a lot of people that I wouldn't want banging away in the woods with anything. In all honesty though, shooting down from a tree stand at a deer has almost no risk of the bullet going 2 miles over and hitting little Timmy in the face. I have seen people squirrel hunting that spray .22 bullets all over the place instead of using a shotgun or a carefully aimed head shot. Those are the ones I am worried about.

 

[JWarren]

It is interesting the size of deer increases greatly in areas where rifle hunting is not allowed.

Interesting, but in no way a correlation.

Whether an animal is taken with a scattergun, slug barrel, or a rifle has no bearing on the growth of the animals not taken.


This is a function of:

-Diet
-Poluation size
-Which deer are taken annually
-Geographic region


Where I hunt is our own private land. Essentially, the entire herd of this wooded area is on 3 landowners' land-- we being one of them. None of these landowners take a great number of deer out of the herd, and all of them plant and put out mineral suppliments.

And our deer aren't anywhere near the size of a Michigan Whitetail-- typically.


-- John

 

[Art Eatman]

Coyotes, deer, cougars: The farther north you go in the lower 48--and, I guess, a ways up into Canada, the larger the average size.

Elevation matters, as well. The mule deer of the southern Rockies are a good bit larger, generally, than our desert mule deer in the Trans-Pecos.

Art

 

[kmrcstintn]

the older thinking about shotguns made sense when pumpkin ball slugs and lower tech sabot slugs were available...now there are loads that are effective and efficient out to 150 + yards; this improvement in shotgun hunting technology negates the reasoning that supports yes to shotguns and no to centerfire rifles

 

[glockgod]

Here's one for ya

Here in Ohio you can hunt varmints with anything you can carry. For deer we are restricted to shotgun slugs,muzzleloading rifles or handguns .357 or larger with straight wall cases. Here is where it gets STUPID! I can legally deer hunt with my .357 revolver but not with my 1894 Marlin carbine. Hello Dumbasses(Ohio Division of Wildlife)! They both fire the same cartridge!! I've had people say "The Marlin holds too much ammo" Hello Dumbasses(again!)With an aftermarket 6" bbl. I could deer hunt with a Glock 20 in 10mm- it holds more ammo than my Marlin and it's a semi auto! There, rant over. I feel much better now!