Chalk one up for freedom: NYC Sued Over Police Subway Bag Searches
- Thread starter Lone_Gunman
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Lone_Gunman
Member
Exactly right, Rick... but I am waiting on Rebar's opinion.
Yes then we can wait for the infamous line papers please 
I watch Fox News, there is an ex-Judge on several of their commentary shows. His position is they are illegal and violate the 4th amendment. Boy did he get rosted by the rest of the people. I hope the judge is righ. Knowing the overwhelming position that people want the appearance of safety over freedom I think the courts will find the policy ok.
I'm not against safety, but let's do something that's constitutional and effective, not just a politicial knee-jerk reaction.
I watch Fox News, there is an ex-Judge on several of their commentary shows. His position is they are illegal and violate the 4th amendment. Boy did he get rosted by the rest of the people. I hope the judge is righ. Knowing the overwhelming position that people want the appearance of safety over freedom I think the courts will find the policy ok.
I'm not against safety, but let's do something that's constitutional and effective, not just a politicial knee-jerk reaction.
Random sidewalk searches? They do that now.
Just watch a few episodes of "Cops", in a high-crime/drug area, they will put everyone just standing around on a corner against a wall and search them. Happens all the time, as I'm sure LEO here can attest to.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Come on Rebar. You can do better than that.
I am not talking about a high crime/street drug area, and you know that. The constitutionality of those kinds of searches should be the topic of another thread.
I am talking about random sidewalk searches on Main Street in Anytown, USA for the purpose of homeland security.
You would be ok with stopping every fifth person there? If you don't want to answer, just say so, but don't put up a smoke screen with an unrelated issue.
I am not talking about a high crime/street drug area, and you know that. The constitutionality of those kinds of searches should be the topic of another thread.
I am talking about random sidewalk searches on Main Street in Anytown, USA for the purpose of homeland security.
You would be ok with stopping every fifth person there? If you don't want to answer, just say so, but don't put up a smoke screen with an unrelated issue.
Nice dodge.
You get all bent out of shape that "the man" is going to start random sidewalk searches and turn America into a police state, yet they've been doing the exact same thing for decades, without totalitarianism breaking out.
You're just afraid it'll be you instead of some minority, so you're choosing now to get all in a lather. If you were really concerned about the issue, you'd gotten more active a long time ago.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I have never at any point supported random searches of anyone, so I am not sure why you are accusing me of that.
Am I more concerned about the issue now that it might affect me? Heck yes, I won't deny that.
You still haven't answered the question I asked though. Would you be tolerant of random sidewalk searches as I described in my previous post?
I disagree with your sentiment, if not with your wording. We are a long way from totalitarianism, but I see this as another limitation on our civil liberties, and most certainly we have moved a little further down the slippery slope. The very searches you say have been occuring for years have no doubt given the police the idea they can expand their searches wherever they want.
I am really not trying to get into a personal argument about whether or not I should have protested in the streets when police conducted searches in the past. I guess in retrospect I should have. But now we are faced with police with increased search powers. I think we need to wake up and stop this.
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Your question is that random subway searches might grow into sidewalk searches. My response is that we've already had random sidewalk searches for decades. My response answers your question completely, but it seems it's not the answer you wanted to hear.
Not getting into the right or wrong of it, the fact remains we've already had these type of searches for a long long time, to be worried that NYC subway searches will grow into something more, when it's already been more for quite some time, is not logical.
Not getting into the right or wrong of it, the fact remains we've already had these type of searches for a long long time, to be worried that NYC subway searches will grow into something more, when it's already been more for quite some time, is not logical.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I see your point Rebar.
I guess I was wanting to discuss the philosophical, legal, and constitutional issues of random searches, and not just whether or not the searches were occurring. I think we all agree they are occurring.
If you, or anyone else, wants to discuss their personal opinion on the "right" and "wrong" of these searches, please feel free to return to the discussion.
I guess I was wanting to discuss the philosophical, legal, and constitutional issues of random searches, and not just whether or not the searches were occurring. I think we all agree they are occurring.
If you, or anyone else, wants to discuss their personal opinion on the "right" and "wrong" of these searches, please feel free to return to the discussion.
longeyes
member
Random searches? Rather, ranDUMB.
All of this is part of the Left's crusade against common sense. Profiling, racial or otherwise, is a form of deductive reasoning, sound detective work.
Reasoning is the real enemy, when you dig deeper.
All of this is part of the Left's crusade against common sense. Profiling, racial or otherwise, is a form of deductive reasoning, sound detective work.
Reasoning is the real enemy, when you dig deeper.
Lone_Gunman
Member
The left???
Most of the current search policy has been set by our good friends, the Republicans (of which I am one, by the way).
Now if you are saying they have moved to the left, I will agree.
atek3
Member
That policy is orwellian. Why does the government even have access to that data (your bank transactions and your credit rating) unless you're actively under investigation of a crime? Throwing every American into a sorting and sifting database is the architypal behavior of the kind of government that exists in 1984.
atek3
atek3
Member
And hey you pro-random search gun nuts... these random searchs are about a thousand times as likely to nail non-terrorists with illegally concealed handguns and dime bags of pot as actual bomb wielding terrorists. And if you think the world would be a better place throwing people with guns or pot in jail, maybe you should get your F-meter checked.
atek3
atek3
Lone_Gunman
Member
Rebar, I thought Michael Bloomberg, the Mayor of NYC who is leading the charge on the subway searches, was a Republican. Am I wrong on that?
I'm taking Longeyes quote a little out of context. Sorry Long but your statement does prove you've been at this cop thing for a long time. We called it Reasonable Suspicion which by itself would not hold up in court but could lead to Probable Cause. Any good cop has either which brings me to my point, I hope.
The only way to curb terrorist attacks is by Intelligence. If the bomber has reached the subway it's too late. There's little difference if he explodes in the subway or outside during rush hour. The current searches ordered by RINO Bloomberg and Ray "Popeye" Kelly is to calm the sheep.
Those of you who traverse the big cities and especially NY right after 9/11 saw a high level of activity including heavily armed police officers. So What! A bomber isn't afraid of being caught in the act. Catching/stopping them before they can act is the only way to keep people safe. It's not possible and people will die. Look at Isreal who is light years ahead of us in security by necessity. It's going to take a lot of bombings here for folks to get it through their heads that life as they know it is over.
BTW good Intelligence leads to No Knock Warrants. Get over it.
As a former (retired) NYC Police Officer why would I want to stand in a subway and search for bombs? If Achnod gets close enough and it's been said their bombs have a range of 150 to 300 feet, Why the Heck Would I want to be There!!
Speaking of Achnod who set the bombs off in Bali? Middle Eastern Muslims or Muslims who look like the general population of the area? IOW what does an Islamic fanatic look like?
Glad I'm retired and live in the sticks.
charliew
Member
How many people here that are against their bags/backpacks being searched getting onto the subway would not say a one word when they enter Disney World (or any other theme park) and they have to consent to a search or leave ?
AngryBassetts.....
>>>Wow...what a great reminder why I don't ever lurk/broswe here anymore.
I enjoy being a "leach". Gives me an opportunity to prevent people like you from parking rental trucks in front of buildings and blowing up children.
Like that generalization?<<<
Hmmm....must have been a rough day upholding the constitution in that beautiful crime free state of yours.....Hope you are having a better day today.
>>>Wow...what a great reminder why I don't ever lurk/broswe here anymore.
I enjoy being a "leach". Gives me an opportunity to prevent people like you from parking rental trucks in front of buildings and blowing up children.
Like that generalization?<<<
Hmmm....must have been a rough day upholding the constitution in that beautiful crime free state of yours.....Hope you are having a better day today.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Disney is private property, and as such, the owners can establish rules for entry. It is no different than your own home. You get to decide who enters, and they have to follow your rules, or leave.
Disney World is optional, for millions of New Yorkers, the subway really is not.
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