Chamber Re-Lining.

Okay scratch that, I have some 3" shells. They measure .472". Wonder why the SAAMI spec has a larger diameter for the 3". ???
 
Well dang it, I tested the 4 grains of Unique load on a plastic milk jug, and it didn't do so well.

I like the idea of just running a .45-70 reamer in it, and using the .45-70 case, but then someday someone puts some "Buffalo Bore" or "Bear Load" .45-70 in it and....? I suspect even .45-70 BP load would take that Stevens apart.

I think my last experiment will be to try a .444 Marlin case loaded with Black Powder. As you all know, BP and smokeless develop pressure pressure curves quite differently, even if loaded to equal pressure. Perhaps that will not stress the case so much and make it stick. The case head on a 444 is a bit larger in diameter. (not that case expansion, in it's self, is the problem) But that would give enough case capacity for the powder and shot. In the shorter cases there would not be room enough for both.

If black powder seems to work, then I could get a bag of primed empty 410 shells and load them with black.
 
Big Bore 44 said:
Odd idea. Take a 45-70 reamer to it, or have it chucked in a lathe and opened to take a straight wall .45 basic case. (unformed .45-70, 90, 120 case)
Click to expand...
I kind of passed over this, but the more I think about it, it's making more and more sense. There's the safety issue of someone putting a .45-70 cartridge in it, but most any 410 chamber will take a .444 Marlin, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .44WCF, etc. case and fire it.
 
Okay, I tried 30+ grains 4fg in a 3" case I chopped the end off of. Don't know the weight of the shot but I'd guess 1/2 ounce about.

Popped off nice, and did extract. A "little" stiff on the extraction, but not too bad. I may be onto something with substituting BP for smokeless.

Now I will need to do it again, but against an enemy empty mild jug.
 
I'm on to something...don't know what, but the BP load will extract, although a bit sticky. It killed the milk jug, and the two paper plates in front of it, went through everything, killed it good. Four grains of Unique, none went through, many did not penetrate the front, and it requires a rod to knock the case out of the chamber.

That was 4fg, now to see if 2fg extracts a little better. Perhaps a bit more chamber polishing. Don't have a .444 case to try, so I'll probably just order some primed and empty 410 shells.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I'm on to something...don't know what, but the BP load will extract, although a bit sticky. It killed the milk jug, and the two paper plates in front of it, went through everything, killed it good. Four grains of Unique, none went through, many did not penetrate the front, and it requires a rod to knock the case out of the chamber.

That was 4fg, now to see if 2fg extracts a little better. Perhaps a bit more chamber polishing. Don't have a .444 case to try, so I'll probably just order some primed and empty 410 shells.
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Sounds like a dumb question perhaps but how have you been polishing the chamber? I like to chuck a brass gun cleaning rod in a drill then screw a brush into that. I figured you may have probably done did something like that but I just figured it wouldn't hurt to suggest
 
Appalachiannative said:
Sounds like a dumb question perhaps but how have you been polishing the chamber? I like to chuck a brass gun cleaning rod in a drill then screw a brush into that. I figured you may have probably done did something like that but I just figured it wouldn't hurt to suggest
Click to expand...
Yes, same difference. I used an old worn out brush just a little bigger than the chamber, wrapped some steel wool on it and a dab of valve grinding compound. I really worked it over, then went no valve grinding compound, then to just steel wool and oil, then finer steel wool, etc. But as StrawHat mentioned, I'm really just polishing the imperfections. Seems to have rings and ridges that just a plain drill would leave. The "funny" thing is that bore is very nice.
 
Another question, if one did use a .45-70 reamer, in order to use that case, how would the reamer's pilot enter the .400-401" bore? Would it not be .457" or something like that?
 
I would be looking at a 6” wooden dowel with a slot cut for sandpaper. Use a 1/2” hard wood dowel, and a file to size the business end down to about .450 so that you can’t possibly go deeper than intended. Work that last 1/3 inch or so over pretty good and keep an eye on your measurements as you go. Shouldn’t take a whole lot to open the tail end of the chamber up that 10 thousandths.

And consider buying the brass shotshell hulls. Those may play nicer than plastic hulls. Paper hulls were available for reloading 16ga not long ago so those might be available for .410 as well. I can look at my 16ga hulls and see where they came from and try to look for paper hulls.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Yes, same difference. I used an old worn out brush just a little bigger than the chamber, wrapped some steel wool on it and a dab of valve grinding compound. I really worked it over, then went no valve grinding compound, then to just steel wool and oil, then finer steel wool, etc. But as StrawHat mentioned, I'm really just polishing the imperfections. Seems to have rings and ridges that just a plain drill would leave. The "funny" thing is that bore is very nice.
Click to expand...
That’s probably because any imperfections in the barrel bother were beyond the bore have been burned and friction eroded away to non-existence. Kinda like my steak knives, those nice sharp edges have worn down to where they hardly cut butter but boy are they smooth.
 
WestKentucky said:
I would be looking at a 6” wooden dowel with a slot cut for sandpaper. Use a 1/2” hard wood dowel, and a file to size the business end down to about .450 so that you can’t possibly go deeper than intended. Work that last 1/3 inch or so over pretty good and keep an eye on your measurements as you go. Shouldn’t take a whole lot to open the tail end of the chamber up that 10 thousandths.

And consider buying the brass shotshell hulls. Those may play nicer than plastic hulls. Paper hulls were available for reloading 16ga not long ago so those might be available for .410 as well. I can look at my 16ga hulls and see where they came from and try to look for paper hulls.
Click to expand...
You might be right about the dowel and sand paper, although I fear making an oversize chamber even more so, although, if there is a bottle neck, then yes.

On brass, most everything in 410 is "out of stock", or crazy expensive. .444 brass seems to be made of gold. Something I have not tried is fire-forming full length .303 brass, I've been cutting it short, which does not leave room for black powder and shot. The black powder is working, so experimenting with brass may still work.

Having said that, loading with black powder, being 410 plastic shells, .444 or .303 brass is showing promise. For me personally, using black powder is not a drawback. For most it would probably be a deal-breaker. I like BP. And, BP cartridge guns are easy to clean.

Even then, the solution may come down to weighing the cost of brass, against renting a chamber reamer. Still, I don't know if a .45-70 reamer would work, considering the pilot is going to be bigger than the 410 bore. ? (have a custom reamer made?? YEAH RIGHT!!!) Buying a reamer would outweigh the price of .444 brass. (which I think would work best, as head diameter is a little bigger than .303 brass or brass 410)(but I have lots of .303 brass) Shipping the barrel to someone to reline the chamber will be more expensive than those options. And, I'm not sure someone can do that without the receiver to set head-space. (on this gun, headspace seems to determine where the action locks up for firing) If I had to send the receiver, then it's FFL time and I'm not going to do that.

Maybe tomorrow I'll try to fire-form some .303 brass into a straight case.

Okay, thankyou for the help and suggestions. And thank you all for letting me "vent". :)
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
I just happen to have a 45/70 chamber reamer. I can provide some measurements if you want. I think I know where its stashed.
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My 45-70 finish chamber reamer pilot is .447". My 45-70 roughing reamer has a floating pilot that measures .448". The floating pilot is replaceable and it wouldn't be a big deal to make one to fit the .410 bore.
 
SC45-70 said:
My 45-70 finish chamber reamer pilot is .447". My 45-70 roughing reamer has a floating pilot that measures .448". The floating pilot is replaceable and it wouldn't be a big deal to make one to fit the .410 bore.
Click to expand...
On the floating pilots (from what I'm seeing they are not expensive) (the removeable pilot, not the reamer) do you think they go as small as .400" on a reamer intended for a .45" bore and cartridge?
 
Ugly Sauce said:
On the floating pilots (from what I'm seeing they are not expensive) (the removeable pilot, not the reamer) do you think they go as small as .400" on a reamer intended for a .45" bore and cartridge?
Click to expand...
I don't know, but I have seen 410 reamers with floating (live) pilots that are removable. The pilot is just a revolving sleeve attached to the reamer, and would not be hard for anyone with a lathe to make. FYI if I knew the specs I could turn out a pilot in a few minutes.
 
SC45-70 said:
I don't know, but I have seen 410 reamers with floating (live) pilots that are removable. The pilot is just a revolving sleeve attached to the reamer, and would not be hard for anyone with a lathe to make. FYI if I knew the specs I could turn out a pilot in a few minutes.
Click to expand...
Then let me ask this: do all the removeable/floating/live pilots have the same inside diameter? Would a pilot for a 410 fit on a .45-70 reamer? That's what is confusing me. I'm suspecting that the pilot shank (or whatever it's called) is going to be bigger for bigger calibers. ??? Or not? I did see some pilots for sale, and they were very inexpensive. I'll try to find them again and see if there is any specs on them.
 
I believe the forward section, or shank that is the pilot, or takes the removeable pilot is called the "spindle". ? Is that correct?

It's beginning to look like the spindle on a .45-70 will take a pilot as small as .400", but I have not found one yet. If I can, I think I can rent a reamer that takes the pilot bushing, and rechambering to the .45-70 case would be a "go". I'll probably need to do a chamber casting first, to make sure no portion of the 410 chamber is bigger than any part of a .45-70 chamber. Dang, this is getting complicated.

However, first I want to fire-form some full length .303 cases and try those, as a 410 shell loaded with 30 grains of black is extracting. Kind of sticky, but not stuck. !!! Ha ha is this a lot of fun or what? And it all began with a new butt stock. !
 
According Manson Reamers there are 5 different sizes of pilots. There catalog does not give a dimension size. I have several but are for 223 or 6.5 cal. The pilots are ground to 0.0001" stepped in 0.0002"

The 45-70 pilot is a #3 size 30 cal - 475 cal

Will not fit Clymer reamers.
 
Last edited:
Blue68f100 said:
According Manson Reamers there are 5 different sizes of pilots. There catalog does not give a dimension size. I have several but are for 223 or 6.5 cal. The pilots are ground to 0.0001" stepped in 0.0002"

The 45-70 pilot is a #3 size 30 cal - 475 cal

Will not fit Clymer reamers.
Click to expand...
Okay, yes I was just looking at that, it is possible to get a .401-.410" pilot on a .45-70 reamer, or at least on theirs.

However...Hold the phone!! I fired formed a .303 case, but cut it off right at the neck. With 30 grains of 2fg it is extracting well with a load of shot. A tiny bit sticky with 4fg, but extracting normally with 2fg. Again, the gun patterns very nicely. So, having plenty of .303 brass I'm going with that. At least it will be a functioning grouse gun. I'll slave away making 50 shells for it, and call it good. Maybe even take it out once and get a grouse with it.

Just for laughs, and since I got a pound of Pyrodex in trade along with the 1863 Remington, I tried 30 grains of that thinking I could use it and spare my good black stuff. Dang...locked it up tighter than a drum, just like smokeless.

Thanks everyone for all the help and ideas. I learned a lot about reamers for sure. And again, I'm not sure that a .45-70 will completely clean that chamber up. Thanks again.
 
slicksleeve said:
Before you go cutting chambers with a reamer, PM me your info. I might have some .444 brass that I could donate to the cause. You know, for science!
Click to expand...
Will PM you and would be glad to pay. I asked my son to donate a couple, but every time he comes over, he "forgot". Yes, putting the reaming on hold for now, but I think .444 brass may be the best solution. Just hate to buy 100 pieces commercially, as that would be an expensive way to find out that it doesn't work any better than the .303 brass. But I'm pretty sure that it does, as the dimensions are closer. Okay thanks. Long live Science!!!
 
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