Change Barrel or Live with it?

[WestKentucky]

No problem. And just FYI, I found zero "published" data for CFEP in 124 gr of any variety. If you have any question just holler, we are here to help. That's the beauty of THR, a group of folks who do what we can to help when we can.

If you run Android I suggest looking for "reloading assistant" app. It's free on Android and hits all the big powder company sites and shows their data. On IOS that same app costs a couple bucks, but the powder companies list their data for free. If you ever run into a situation like this where you can't find data, you can often email them telling them what bullet and powder you are using and they will probably have data that they didn't publish, usually because it didn't perform well or maybe they just didn't think it would be popular enough to take up bandwidth.

And always load short for autoloaders...you want the neck tension on the bullet when the slide rams it home. It's unsafe on both ends if the bullet slips. If it jams a bit but still manages to chamber, the bullet can be pushed deeper into the case ramping pressure up to a dangerous level. If the bullet slides forward when the case gets stopped suddenly as it headspaces then it can get into the rifling and cause pressure spikes before the bullet manages to move against the lands. Normally the few thousandths a bullet jumps before getting into the lands gives it enough momentum to go on through without major pressure spikes.

 

[WestKentucky]

We still need your load information.

He posted it somewhere on page 1. I missed it but backtracked and found it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

He posted it somewhere on page 1. I missed it but backtracked and found it.

Ah, I see it now....

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why is everyone telling the OP he is overcharging? Data for Berry's bullets isn't hard to find any more. His very bullet and powder are on the Hodgdon site right now.

124gr Berrys bullet, CFE Pistol, CCI 500 primer and an OAL of 1,150". Max charge is 5.5gr according to them.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

 

[ray15]

Why is everyone telling the OP he is overcharging? Data for Berry's bullets isn't hard to find any more. His very bullet and powder are on the Hodgdon site right now.

124gr Berrys bullet, CFE Pistol, CCI 500 primer and an OAL of 1,150". Max charge is 5.5gr according to them.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

He's using the plain-base RN. The hollow base on the bullet the Hodgdon data reflects is pretty substantial, and thus changes the effective case volume significantly.

The 1120fps at max is relevant, though. That's why I'd run whatever charge of CFEP it took to make 1120fps. CFEP like to be at max.

 

[VAReloader]

I have used a lot of Berry's and xTreme (both are plated) 124gr RN with 5.3 gr CFE Pistol. COL 1.150"
Chrono about 1170 fps.

As someone mentioned earlier, I would think it's more an issue of chamber size on his Glock.

 

[rskent]

As someone mentioned earlier, I would think it's more an issue of chamber size on his Glock.

And if you mess around chasing a small problem with the Glock are you going to create a different problem with a different pistol? For me, if it is reliable and accurate I am not going to change anything. But I am not willing to have a special 9mm load for a Glock. If I ever get enough money put together for a P210, for sure. But not for a Glock.

 

[z7]

Do th bullets go where you tell them consistent with your shooting abilities?

Do the rounds reliably cycle the firearm?

Is there any functional problem created?

If you answered yes yes and no, then you are chasing cosmetic “problems” and I think you should leave it alone

BUT.... you u have asked the question indicating that you are not happy with things and like all reloaders you will end up tinkering with it until you are happy, so start low, work up, don’t blow yourself up....

 

[jonb32248]

Do th bullets go where you tell them consistent with your shooting abilities?

Do the rounds reliably cycle the firearm?

Is there any functional problem created?

If you answered yes yes and no, then you are chasing cosmetic “problems” and I think you should leave it alone

BUT.... you u have asked the question indicating that you are not happy with things and like all reloaders you will end up tinkering with it until you are happy, so start low, work up, don’t blow yourself up....

To answer your question, yes,yes,and no. Just was wanting to get rid of the carbon . But I'm seeing that probably the rds. are to long. I have learned some things here that I will apply.

 

[Dudedog]

If everything else is fine I wouldn't worry about soot on the cases.
A different powder might take care of the issue if it really bothers you.

 

[jonb32248]

Ok well I have 100 rds already of the CFEP 5.2 grns,124grn. Berry's. I ran them thru the seating die to bring them down to 1.150". Why are they not consistently coming out the same. It's mixed brass so is this the reason or another. I don't see that as the reason. What am I missing. Or is it an inconsistent bullet shape from Berry's? Do I need to be concerned? They range from 1.147"-1.153", most falling in the 1.151". I only have changed about 20 so far. I have put them in order to try out at the range today or next week.

 

[jonb32248]

If everything else is fine I wouldn't worry about soot on the cases.
A different powder might take care of the issue if it really bothers you.

I have been looking and found some "clean" powder for next time.

 

[ray15]

Ok well I have 100 rds already of the CFEP 5.2 grns,124grn. Berry's. I ran them thru the seating die to bring them down to 1.150". Why are they not consistently coming out the same. It's mixed brass so is this the reason or another. I don't see that as the reason. What am I missing. Or is it an inconsistent bullet shape from Berry's? Do I need to be concerned? They range from 1.147"-1.153", most falling in the 1.151". I only have changed about 20 so far. I have put them in order to try out at the range today or next week.

Yes, it's just minor inconsistency in the bullets. Nothing to worry about at .006".

 

[ray15]

I have been looking and found some "clean" powder for next time.

Likely Alliant Sport Pistol or one of the VV powders would be cleaner. But CFE-P isn't any dirtier than other ball powders in its speed range.

 

[jonb32248]

Likely Alliant Sport Pistol or one of the VV powders would be cleaner. But CFE-P isn't any dirtier than other ball powders in its speed range.

Thanks for the help and direction.

 

[LiveLife]

I have been looking and found some "clean" powder for next time.

Likely Alliant Sport Pistol or one of the VV powders would be cleaner.

Many match shooters are reporting Sport Pistol burning cleaner than N320 (which burns relatively clean compared to other powders) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-performance-info-for-shot-011017-pdf.235432/

Berry's 124 RN,CFE pistol ... and they are a little hard to get exact data.

Hodgdon publishes load data for Berry's bullets under BERB (Berry's Bullets) and since bullet weights vary around 1 gr, I also reference 125 gr load data (Note OAL/COL and powder charge differences) - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

While Hodgdon load data for Berry's bullet is for hollow base thicker plated RN, for regular plated solid base RN, I have used lead load data with good results (See below comment on using shorter OAL).

124 GR Berry's HBRN-TP CFE Pistol COL 1.150" Start 4.9 gr (1,006 fps) 27,300 PSI - Max 5.5 gr (1,120 fps) 33,800 PSI

125 GR Sierra FMJ CFE Pistol COL 1.090" Start 4.6 gr (1,009 fpr) 26,900 PSI - Max 5.1 gr (1,118 fps) 33,000 PSI

125 GR Lead Cone Nose CFE Pistol COL 1.125" Start 4.4 gr (1,041 fps) 27,200 PSI - Max 5.0 gr (1,156 fps) 33,000 PSI

I run them as long as possible, 1.67" I think.

Why are you running them so long? ... running them long drops the pressure and the drop can be considerable in the 9mm ... Most of my 9mm ammo runs between 1.100" and 1.125" .You are running your ammo right near the max SAAMI length. You lose bullet [tension] since there isn't much of the bullet in the neck.

Use the OAL listed in the data as a guide and move the bullet to find the best accuracy.

Good advice.

While using longest working OAL/COL to reduce gas leakage (as bullet jumps from the case to start of rifling) with the intent of sealing the case mouth with the chamber faster; with 9mm bullets (especially with shorter base FMJ/RN vs HP/FP), I have found using shorter OAL (which seats bullet base deeper in the case neck where case wall is thicker) improves neck tension and produce more consistent powder burn/chamber pressure build for greater accuracy (and better sealing of case mouth with chamber which reduces powder fouling of case).

With slower burning than Unique/Universal/BE-86 powders, efficient powder burn is often achieved near max load data. Black powder fouling on side of case indicates case mouth did not expand fully to seal with the chamber. To address this, you can increase powder charge or seat the bullet deeper. Since you are already near max load data, I would suggest using shorter OAL and dropping the powder charge.

I have done 1.150"-1.160" OAL vs 1.100"-1.145" OAL comparison range tests and found shorter OAL to produce greater accuracy. With 115 gr FMJ/RN bullets, I tend to load them around 1.100"-1.135" and 124 gr FMJ/RN bullets around 1.135"-1.145".

Since you got 5.2 gr test rounds loaded, I suggest you load some shorter like 1.130" and 1.140" to see if powder fouling on case improves.

1.150". Why are they not consistently coming out the same. It's mixed brass so is this the reason or another. I don't see that as the reason. What am I missing. Or is it an inconsistent bullet shape from Berry's? Do I need to be concerned? They range from 1.147"-1.153", most falling in the 1.151".

With plated bullets on progressive press, no.

In general, I get less OAL variance with jacketed bullets compared to plated bullets due to more consistent nose profile/ogive.

As to mixed brass adding to OAL variance, we recently examined OAL variance with different headstamp brass and bullets on progressive press - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ect-on-oal-variance-progressive-press.833604/

BLAZER - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.115" - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001' OAL variance

R-P - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular; 1.115' - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001" OAL variance

WIN - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.114" - 1.117" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.114" - 1.115" = .001" OAL variance

BLAZER - 9mm RMR 124 gr FP:

• Regular: 1.070" - 1.072" = .002" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.069" - 1.070 = .001 OAL variance

 

[ray15]

Many match shooters are reporting Sport Pistol burning cleaner than N320 (which burns relatively clean compared to other powders)

I've got a ladder of Sport Pistol with the 135gr. xtreme plated HPs I hope to chrono tomorrow. I love the combination of power and accuracy that CFEP and BE86 provide in 9mm, but don't need all their velocity potential and would like to find something that burns as cleanly as demonstrated by most of the 9mm range brass I pick up that's from factory ammo. Not that a little soot is the end of the world, but I still want to understand what it takes to make really clean-burning loads and be able to produce them when desired.

 

[jonb32248]

Many match shooters are reporting Sport Pistol burning cleaner than N320 (which burns relatively clean compared to other powders) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-performance-info-for-shot-011017-pdf.235432/


Hodgdon publishes load data for Berry's bullets under BERB (Berry's Bullets) and since bullet weights vary around 1 gr, I also reference 125 gr load data (Note OAL/COL and powder charge differences) - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

While Hodgdon load data for Berry's bullet is for hollow base thicker plated RN, for regular plated solid base RN, I have used lead load data with good results (See below comment on using shorter OAL).

124 GR Berry's HBRN-TP CFE Pistol COL 1.150" Start 4.9 gr (1,006 fps) 27,300 PSI - Max 5.5 gr (1,120 fps) 33,800 PSI

125 GR Sierra FMJ CFE Pistol COL 1.090" Start 4.6 gr (1,009 fpr) 26,900 PSI - Max 5.1 gr (1,118 fps) 33,000 PSI

125 GR Lead Cone Nose CFE Pistol COL 1.125" Start 4.4 gr (1,041 fps) 27,200 PSI - Max 5.0 gr (1,156 fps) 33,000 PSI


Good advice.

While using longest working OAL/COL to reduce gas leakage (as bullet jumps from the case to start of rifling) with the intent of sealing the case mouth with the chamber faster; with 9mm bullets (especially with shorter base FMJ/RN), I have found using shorter OAL (which seated bullet base deeper in the case neck where case wall is thicker) improves neck tension and produce more consistent powder burn/chamber pressure build for greater accuracy.

With slower burning than Unique/Universal/BE-86 powders, efficient powder burn is often achieved near max load data. Black powder fouling on side of case indicates case mouth did not expand fully to seal with the chamber. To address this, you can increase powder charge or seat the bullet deeper. Since you are already near max load data, I would suggest using shorter OAL and dropping the powder charge.

I have done 1.150"-1.160" OAL vs 1.100"-1.145" OAL comparison range tests and found shorter OAL to produce greater accuracy. With 115 gr FMJ/RN bullets, I tend to load them around 1.100"-1.135" and 124 gr FMJ/RN bullets around 1.135"-1.145".

Since you got 5.2 gr test rounds loaded, I suggest you load some shorter like 1.130" and 1.140" to see if powder fouling on case improves.


With plated bullets on progressive press, no.

In general, I get less OAL variance with jacketed bullets compared to plated bullets due to more consistent nose profile/ogive.

As to mixed brass adding to OAL variance, we recently examined OAL variance with different headstamp brass and bullets on progressive press - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ect-on-oal-variance-progressive-press.833604/

BLAZER - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.115" - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001' OAL variance

R-P - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular; 1.115' - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001" OAL variance

WIN - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.114" - 1.117" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.114" - 1.115" = .001" OAL variance

BLAZER - 9mm RMR 124 gr FP:

• Regular: 1.070" - 1.072" = .002" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.069" - 1.070 = .001 OAL variance

Wow thanks for all of this great info. I will copy it down so I can pull what I need out and use it. I will take some more rds. that I have already made up in the old OAL and test them at your suggestions. Love it!

 

[egd]

What BDS said above....Load a batch at 1.135 and test them against your 1.150.

 

[LiveLife]

Load a batch at 1.135 and test them against your 1.150.

+1. You might even try 1.125".

So take 1.125" and 1.135" to compare with 1.150". Likely accuracy will be better with 1.125" and 5.2 gr CFE Pistol and powder fouling on case should be less.

Here's a thread that mentions Berry's/plated 124 gr RN and CFE Pistol. Many used 5.0 - 5.2 gr with shorter 1.100"-1.135" OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/looking-for-a-cfe-pistol-load-for-124gr-9mm.768441/