Changing BBWC and load 38 Special

[Boho]

I loaded several boxes of Speer 4605 BBWC for my Dads 38 special. A few months ago he called and said he was down to 2 boxes. He really likes these paper punchers and I couldn't find them anywhere. So I bought the Lee 358 148 gr WC mold and had a local guy cast 500 for me. When my dad called he also said he bought another 38 for my mom, and asked if I could tone these new loads down a bit. The last boxes of the speer WC were the min load of bullseye (3.9 GR, COL 1.295 ) in speer #12 manual. I searched for lower load data and found in Lyman's 49th a 150gr WC with a min load of 3.1 GR bullseye with a COL of 1.317. I setup to seat these Lee mold WC, pushing them in the case to the cannelure, and they are much shorter than 1.317 called for for the Lyman bullet, and the 1.295 of the speer. They have a COL of 1.248 , so it appears they are .089 deeper in the case than the speer bullets I usually load. Question is does 3.1 GR of bullseye under this Lee wadcutter weighing 153 gr @ COL 1.248 sound like a safe target load? I don't have a 38 to test them.

 

[moxie]

A classic way to load wadcutters is seat them almost flush with just a fingernail's thickness showing above the case mouth. OAL will be about 1.17". (The OAL doesn't really matter.)

Use about 2.8-3.0 Bullseye. Using 2.9 BE I get 796fps average with a 4" barrel.

 

[Wil Terry]

PLEASE NOTE; The load you state using 3.9grs of BULLSEYE for the Speer 148GRWC bullet is the MAXIMUM load NOT NOT NOT the minimum load. From what I can gather here, without YOU having a 38SPL test gun, your Daddy should be buying his own commercial 38SPL WC shooting ammunition.

 

[Boho]

Wil Terry am I reading this wrong? 3.9 min 813 fps, 4.5 max 933 fps? Do I have a misprinted copy?

 

[243winxb]

3.1 gr Bullseye 148 gr is Alliants data published online for 38 Special. Your data may be for 357 mag??? http://www.alliantpowder.com

 

[Boho]

No the 357 only has data for HBWC. I called Speer thinking I may have a misprint. They confirmed the data as correct. Think I will look at Alliants data. Thanks

 

[rcmodel]

Lyman #49 manual says:

.38 Special.
4" pressure test barrel.

150 grain solid base Cast wadcutter.
OAL = 1.317".

Bullseye powder.
Start load = 3.1 grains = 837 FPS - 13,100 CUP.
MAX load = 3.5 grains = 925 FPS - 16,400 CUP.

Go with it!

3.9 to 4.5 sounds Way Too Hot for target wadcutters to me!

rc

 

[Boho]

Thank you moxie, rc.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Boho,
The OAL in any manual is useless to you unless you are using the same exact bullet and brass trimmed to the same length as in the manual. All lead bullets should be seated to the crimp groove supplied by the bullet manufacturer. That will produce the correct OAL with that bullet.

BTW, does your Lee mold produce DEWC or HBWC bullets?

 

[Boho]

DEWC with a button nose.

 

[Wil Terry]

Wil Terry am I reading this wrong? 3.9 min 813 fps, 4.5 max 933 fps? Do I have a misprinted copy?

It does look like it to me. BUT it is NOT that in the NEW speer manual and you should ALWAYS use the latest data.

ALSO, the DEWC cannot have a "button nose" as DEWC means double-ended-wad-cutter; it is the SAME on both ends in other words.
ALSO[again, I have in 50 years never ever seen a DEWC that was not a cast WC bullet. AS far As i know there were never ever ANY swaged DEWC bullets.
ALSO[number 3] I pressure tested a pile of 38SPL FULLCHARGE wadcutter loads and 3.4grs of Bullseye was right on the money, right alonjg with 3.4grs of damn near every appropriate fast burning propellent you ever heard of.
ALSO[ 4 ] IN EVERY 38 WE TESTED 2", 3" 4", 5", 6", 6 1/2", AND 8 3/8" every WC bullet tested , HBWC, BNWC;BBWC, BBBNWC; DEWC,etc etc shot it's absolute best out of EVERY pistol with a charge weight of 3.4grs. Here is the rub though; EVERY pistol preferred a different propellent with very diferent bullet, BUT ALWAYS 3.4grs, ALWAYS.
These tests consumed over 10,000 bullets and primers and it was mostly all published in my column back when in PETERSONS HANDGUNS magazine
And so it goes...

 

[1KPerDay]

The old Speer Bevel Base WC are different from the typical WC (which are softer, longer bullets, and usually seated flush over very light loads). The BBWC have a crimp groove and are intended to be seated and crimped to that groove. Recommended Loads FOR THE BBWC are hotter and shouldn't be used for 'typical'/target WC loads.

 

[Boho]

On the left is the cast solid WC from a Lee 358-148-WC. On the right is a Speer #4605 BBWC. The Lee bullet has a button nose and a cannelure that I intend to use for the crimp. As you can see using this cannelure will be seating the WC deeper than the speer bullet, almost flush like the HBWC I have loaded in the past. Thanks for the input everyone! Change the bullet, check the charge. 3.9 looked excessive to me when I checked Lyman's data, so I asked you guys for your experience. Thanks!

 

[1KPerDay]

On the left is the cast solid WC from a Lee 358-148-WC. On the right is a Speer #4605 BBWC. The Lee bullet has a button nose and a cannelure that I intend to use for the crimp. As you can see using this cannelure will be seating the WC deeper than the speer bullet, almost flush like the HBWC I have loaded in the past.

Yep. that's why you don't use BBWC-specific data for "regular" WCs. Use "regular/target" WC data. Be safe and have fun!