Changing grip angle?

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showmebob

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Is there any practical way to modify the grip angle on a polymer pistol? I was thinking of maybe building up one of the replaceable backstraps on my FNX. Has anyone tried this? What material did you use and how were the results?

FYI I want to change the angle to match my other 2 favorite shooters without needing an adjustment period at the range. I like the gun so I really don't want to trade it in for a different model.

Thanks in advance for anything you can share!
 
David, the gun points low. I was thinking of adding some material to the bottom of the backstrap. One of the local gun shops said it wasn't practical to do it and just trade it off for something different.
 
jtq

Thanks for the link. l was thinking of something less visual that would be permanent and appear to be original equipment. Just my style. Nothing wrong with the way he did his.
 
Instead of permanent at this point think "trial". Adding material to a back strap will still leave the front strap at the same angle. If you're thinking to add to the upper back strap of something like a Glock to more closely replicate the back strap angle of something like a 1911 consider that you will also be increasing the distance to the trigger.

So all in all it's wise to work with foam or other materials for now to build up a trial run and see if you like how it fits first before getting into more permanent modifications.

I strongly suspect that if you have to add much at the back without the ability to remove similar amounts along the front that you'll find the grip to be oversize and hard to hold in a way that assures accurate shooting from a very consistent grip.

If you go around to a craft store you will find some very stiff foam sheet that is roughly 1/8 inch thick. This sheet can be cut into patches and glued then the edges feathered off with a sharp knife. A single layer wrap of electrical tape will hold the foam packing in place well enough to let you try the fit and play with adding or subtracting more foam.
 
BCRider

Thanks for the input, I may try this. I would add to the bottom of the grip backstrap, not the top.
A permanent fix like I am wondering about must be very difficult, not worth the trouble or just not popular or there would have been more replies.
Thanks again for the input. Much appreciated!
 
If you do enough point shooting drills eventually you'll adjust, adapt, and overcome. Shoot ONLY that gun for the entire time you are doing this. Don't switch between guns. Don't bring multiple guns to the range with you. Practice every weekend or two until it's second nature.

You'll instinctively, over time, point that gun right. As soon as you pick it up your brain will switch and you won't even know it's happening.

I can switch between a 1911 and a Glock in the same range session now and still put point shooting drills dead center.

But it wasn't always that way.

Problem I had for a long time was always bringing more iron than I needed to at the range. Don't bring more than one gun. ONLY bring one gun. And only bring that gun until it feels like it's a part of you.

THEN.. work on the next gun.. and so on.

EDIT: Also don't modify the gun to fix a problem that is mental/hand-eye coordination. You don't need to.
 
Grip angle is more a mind-set then a practical matter.
If you use it & practice with the gun, the grip angle doesn't matter.

The 1911 pistol is a good example.

I was forced to shoot the arched housing in competition.
even though I would have preferred the flat housing for better 'point shooting'.

The problem with that is, point shooting based on feel does not win pistol matches, or gun-fights.

Sights & trigger control do.
So if you subscribe to that?

Grip angle makes no difference at all once you train with the gun enough to be using is for serious purposes in the first place.

In other words?
What feels good in the gun shop, or setting on the couch, isn't necessarily what controls recoil and wins matches or gun-fights.

The sights do.
Not how it feels like it 'points' in your hand!

rc
 
But you shouldn't have to fight your own gun when you have a choice.

I agree with working with the gun until it's a non-issue instead of doctoring it up so it'll fit.

Unless there is no choice in the gun selection, why not spend the time, money and ammo getting better with a gun you don't have to fight each time you pick it up?
 
How many guns have you ever had to fight?

Once you shot them enough to figure you didn't have to fight them to shoot them well?

rc
 
Thanks for the replies and ideas.
I believe the best performance comes with "natural pointing" guns. Yes, you can learn to use any gun but for best performance using various ones especially in a stress situation I believe natural is better.
This gun is not new to me. I have shot it and only it until I could point shoot or shoot rapidly without adjusting. However, every trip an adjustment period is necessary. Not a long one but one just the same. My other favorite shooters are totally natural with no adjustment period necessary.
In a stressful situation I don't think my brain will take time to think (or feel) "this is brand X, shoot higher". I think what comes naturally is what will happen.
Using sights? YES, that is what we are taught (mostly) however one course I took it was proven by many of the students (including myself) that point shooting at defensive distances was just as accurate and faster than sight shooting. This was part of the course and you were allowed to shoot either way. I was using both a 5" pistol and a 2" wheel gun interchangeably. Both were spot on.
Yes, I believe strongly in using sights whenever possible however I have read many times of shootings where the shooter didn't remember even seeing his sights. Therefore I believe in "natural pointing equipment".
Range time is very limited for me since Dec but I'll keep working at this. If I find a solution I like I'll post again with some pictures.
Thanks again for all the input, it's much appreciated.
 
Showmebob;

When I teach concealed carry courses there's a number of drills I teach that do not use the sights. All are up-close-and-personal.

1-2 steps from attacker I teach draw and shoot from the hip. You can put rounds center mass all day long without aiming, while keeping your support arm free to block them if they rush at you.

2-5 steps from attacker I teach the above (if they are rushing) AND shoot from close-in retention two handed (if they are not). A person can easily close that distance and contest your gun if you "stick it out and hand it to them". Again, sights are not even in play, the gun is in front of your torso.

5+ steps from attacker (7-10 yards) I mask off rear sights and teach students point shooting; from retention, extend both arms and fire. You can easily hit center mass without a front sight acquisition (masking off the notch prevents it). With sufficient practice, you can even reliably get headshots without using the front sight from 10 yards.

Further out I teach always acquire the front sight.

I also teach if the attacker is under concealment / cover, don't point shoot, acquire the front sight and then take the shot. Smaller target makes precision more important. If the target is fully exposed, precise sight alignment isn't necessary for rapid shots on target center mass.

We also do move-while-shooting drills both with sights masked off and not masked off so students can get an idea of accuracy differences if they focus on the front sight while moving.

Natural pointing guns (for you) will always work better, but again, shouldn't really be required if you spend enough time with the gun.

The above drills are something you can generally run on any outdoor range where you are alone on the firing line or the others with agree to set the firing line closer to targets to practice.

I like shooting from the hip from the draw, feel like an old time cowboy, and it's always a good feeling when you plug the x-ring without aiming. Inside 5 yards I can put the bullets right exactly where I want them to go from the hip.

(Hip = point 2 of draw, close retention to torso 2 handed = point 3, extended arms = point 4 when I teach.. master grip is point 1, not a shooting position but the most important of them all...)

In classes I'll run drills where I count 2-3-4 and the students draw and fire from that position. I try to correlate these to distances to teach them "if you are this far away this is an option". So I also adjust the line's distance with commands in between shots. Also call # of shots to put down too.

E.g.

"Two steps forward. {wait} "Fire two shots from 2" - class draws and fires 2 shots from the hip.

I'll also do drills where we start from a point - 2, 3, or 4, and if I say "FIRE" they fire a shot, if I say ANYTHING ELSE they stay in place. Teaches them to think and be aware with their senses (including hearing). Every class someone always falls for "FRIEND", or similar. :)

Defensive shooting practice is fun, much different than just setting up targets and plugging the x ring.
 
Trent

Thanks for the reply.
What you teach is pretty much along the lines of what is taught in the CCW course I assist with and the course I took.
At 7 yards the Fnx shoots about 1 foot low unsighted while the other guns are spot on. I am simply wanting to see if there is a way to modify the gun to make point shooting as natural as with the other 2 guns.
Thanks again!
 
I disagree with those telling you to adapt to the firearm instead of adapting the firearm to you. Go ahead and work with a sculpting polymer putty to get the fit you want. These materials can be found in art suppliers
 
Grip angle is more a mind-set then a practical matter.
If you use it & practice with the gun, the grip angle doesn't matter.
I profoundly disagree.

I have struggled to competently shoot semiautomatic pistols for most of my life, using a wide range of "traditional" pistols. On good days, I found that I could be reasonably good shooting quickly as well as slowly. Sadly, not every day was a good day. On bad days, I'd find myself consistently shooting low during multi-shot strings, with follow-up shots hitting lower than the first shots. To address this issue, I tried arched MSH and flat MSH but in the end could never find that multi-shot consistency that I wanted.

Until one day, I took up shooting SA (1873 clone) revolvers on a whim and found that they pointed for me like the finger of fate with utter consistency, no matter how tired or how focused that I was. I reasoned that my new-found consistency wasn't just about the trigger - my 1911's had good crisp SA triggers - and wasn't just about resetting my grip for each shot. In the end, I concluded that the steeper grip angle of the SA revolver was simply more biomechanically natural for me. I switched to shooting a Ruger Mk I and a Glock in place of my 22/45 and 1911 as an experiment to prove or disprove my hypothesis, and was stunned by the consistency that I achieved with this range combo. I concluded that grip angle absolutely DOES matter, and I have never been more pleased with my shooting.

This may not be true for all folk, but it's absolutely true for me.
 
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suggestion: rubber sleeves to slip over grips are available (cut section of bike tire) to reduce slipperyness. once on you should be able to slip small cut pieces of cardboard under the rubber to change grip size/angle withoutout making any Permanent changes. once you find what you like, find a substance that will Permanently attach to grip to make change.
 
opr1945 said;

suggestion: rubber sleeves to slip over grips are available (cut section of bike tire) to reduce slipperyness. once on you should be able to slip small cut pieces of cardboard under the rubber to change grip size/angle withoutout making any Permanent changes. once you find what you like, find a substance that will Permanently attach to grip to make change.
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I have used this "fix" on a couple of guns: on one gun (Kel-Tec P-3AT) I added to the bottom of the back strap in order to raise the muzzle as you want to do, on the other gun (Rossi revolver) the grip was too thin and I added to the inside (palm swell).

Under a piece of bicycle tube I used pieces of flexible plastic tubing cut in half the long way so they would curve around the back strap and be comfortable, just kept layering strips until it was right. Once you get the layers to the right thickness you can glue them all together so they don't shift during use.

Similar for the palm swell, but used flat strips of thin plastic. Starting with a wide strip first then slowly narrowing the strips as new ones were added to form a slight curve.

Bobo
 
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How many guns have you ever had to fight?

Once you shot them enough to figure you didn't have to fight them to shoot them well?

rc
I see students all the time that fight their own gun (holster, mag pouches, etc) for no reason. Grip too big, gun too heavy, barrel too long, too much kick, etc etc.

One gal was near tears by 10 am because the slide of the .380 PPK that she had chosen was cutting tracks into her hand making it bleed. We swapped her out with a Glock 17 and she completed the class smiling and as "most improved."

Had I been of the mindset that she should "just get used to it," she never would've made it to lunch and her husband would have a hard time getting her to shoot anything in the future.

I've watched countless others fight their holsters and never realize they'd been fighting them each draw.

There's no reason for 99% of us to fight our equipment.
 
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Thanks to all. I will try the modifications and report back in the future. Not sure exactly when the future will be as this is a really busy time of year for me and the weather hasn't co-operated for months now.
Thanks again!
 
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