Chart For Volume Of Shot?

[rodwha]

I've read many times that it's best to use equal volumes of powder to shot in a muzzleloading shotgun. I cannot seem to find any sort of chart or reference that shows how much shot fills X volume of grains.

My manual states my rifle can handle 90 grns of 3F with a 450 grn Maxi. I want to figure if I can load it heavy enough for turkey.

How much does an ounce of say #4 shot fill?

I'm wondering if 1 1/8 oz of #4 and about 70 grns would be sufficient (looking for slightly more shot volume to weight as I read it should tighten up the pattern a little). I'm hoping to be good up to about 30+ yds.

I want to bore a Lyman's .50 cal barrel to 28 ga. Maybe seeing if I can have it jug choked. I'd prefer not to use a modern screw in choke, but I'd sure like for a 28 ga Lyman barrel to be up to the task without stretching it too far. Not being constrained by a shell I feel I ought to be able to get enough shot in there, but can I safely load it with enough powder for a clean kill at 30-35 yds?

 

[kBob]

One assumes you have a volume measure for your 90 grain powder charge.

Fill that measure with #4 shot and then pour the shot into your scale and weigh it. Count the shot. Do the math if you want different weights.

-kBob

 

[rodwha]

I don't have the shot though.

I could open up a 7 1/2 shell, but I'd rather not. And I'm not even sure how well it would transition to #4.

 

[AJumbo]

If you can find one that'll fit your stock, start with a .54 barrel; you'll be closer to your 28 ga. goal right off the bat.

Insofar as volume-for-volume loading, most of my pet loads for my 12 ga double are just that. When I'm loading off the bench I tend to use the same dipper for powder and shot. One exception is a heavier load for turkeys and nuisance mammals that runs about 10% heavier volume on the shot side. I've never weighed any of my shot loads. In fact, I tend to decide how much shot I want to throw first, then match the charge to the load.

Also remember that an ounce of #4 will be a bulkier load than an ounce of #8. The air spaces between the larger pellets are larger than those between the smaller pellets..... isn't this fun?

 

[rodwha]

I initially considered a .54 cal, but the grooves would be .560" on a round ball barrel, and I wanted to make it easier on myself with components available for a 28 ga.

I'd jut hate to go through the trouble of having a barrel bored smooth to find out I can't quite get enough shot/powder to do the main job, though I would certainly use it on small game too.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well consider this...

Folks used the 28 gauge, the 24 gauge, and the 20 gauge, with a single, simple tool, for years. They developed a load that shot well for them with their smoothbores, basically out to about 50 yards and that was effective when they hit deer. Then they fashioned a measure to give them that amount of powder, and used that for loading shot as well. They simply learned at what range it worked, as they did when their single ball was loaded for bear or deer.

Now FYI 70 grains of powder is right at 2½ drams. If you look at older boxes of shotshells they often say "2½ Dram Equivalent". So you might try that for powder and shot. Whether you use 7½ shot or 4 shot, that should be close to 3/4 of an ounce. That's very similar to a modern, 28 gauge upland game load, and it's a little lighter than a 7/8 ounce 20 gauge load.

Shooting shot isn't like shooting ball... if 70 grains of 2Fg works well then 90 grains should be even better doesn't necessarily ring true for shot as it sometimes does for ball, for you can blow your pattern by too much powder, or you can really lower your muzzle velocity with too much shot...hence the rule-of-thumb to use equal amounts.

So I'd try a 70 grain measure and use it for the shot... and pattern the gun. THEN I'd put an empty, steel tuna can at 30 yards, bottom facing me, and shoot that. If some of the pellets don't penetrate that can bottom... I'd either up the grains of powder by 10 OR test fire at 25 yards, and if that did the trick, I'd have "ranged" my gun.

First get it to shoot with the basics, then you can play with things like "waxed" rounds where you make loads filled with shot and beeswax to hold it together for a split second as it goes downrange to get tighter groups.

LD

 

[rodwha]

Thank you! That certainly gives me a place to start, and consider that a 28 ga may just be doable, though I had hoped that I could get about 1 oz of shot figuring that would be about borderline for turkey. Maybe I'll just have to get them in a little closer…

Waxed shot sounds interesting! Thanks for the tip! maybe with jugging the bore I can get a descent pattern yet!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

You may find this information useful.

I load all my 12 gauge CAS shells with Black Powder. I use the 4.3CC dipper, which is the largest in the Lee Dipper set, to measure out my powder. Using this dipper my powder charge varies with the brand of powder, as not all powder weighs the same. The chart I keep in my reloading notebook says that 4.3CC of Goex FFg equals 60 grains, and 4.3CC of Schuetzen FFg, the powder I usually use, equals 64.4 grains. Doing a little bit of math, the Schuetzen charge equals about 2.35 drams.

(16 ounces to the pound, 16 drams to the ounce - one dram = 27.34375 grains)

I normally use this load with 1 1/8 ounces of #8 shot. So this is about a 2 1/3 dram load. This is by no means a heavy load, it is relatively light, but it knocks down everything I point it at in CAS.

Some shells still use the Dram Equivalent information on the box, but it is becoming less and less common. Dram Equivalency means that a particular Smokeless load is propelling the shot at the same velocity as a specific Black Powder charge. 2 3/4 dram eq. loads have been the norm for Trap shooting for years. They are often labeled as Light Target loads. Working from memory here, the standard velocity for 12 gauge, 2 3/4", 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 ounce loads is 1145 fps.The four packs you can usually buy at the big box stores are usually 3 dram loads, they shoot at a slightly higher velocity.

If you don't already have this kit, it is very useful for loading Black Powder, but I will caution you that the sliding chart that comes with it is not very accurate. It lists a generic weight for each granulation of Black Powder, but my own weighing has determined what the dippers actually throw.

http://leeprecision.com/powder-measure-kit.html

You may find this dipper useful. It approximates the old adjustable dippers that used to be used for powder and shot for shotgun loads. It is graduated in 1/8 ounce increments from 1 ounce to 1 7/8 ounces. I never use it as I use the shot bar on my MEC Jr to portion out my shot, but it is inexpensive if you want to do some rough approximating. Bear in mind that the larger the size of shot you put into it, the less accurate it is, because larger balls do not pack in as uniformly as smaller balls do. But you may find it useful.

http://leeprecision.com/adjustable-shot-dipper.html

 

[rodwha]

Very interesting! I like that, and it seems that it just might be easier than using my adjustable powder measure as I could see shot being spilled easily.

Thanks!

 

[jgh4445]

Always a good read for smoothbore shooting and reference:
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/

 

[Noz]

You will have a much better pattern with the powder charge 10-15% smaller than the shot charge.

 

[BCRider]

Um.... for muzzle loaders used on turkeys does that silly steel shot rule for hunting apply? That could mess you up a lot.

 

[MEHavey]

6.2cc is exactly 590gr(~1⅓oz) of #7½ shot
(I use it to load my Brown Bess for skeet)

Use Lee powder dippers proportionally from there...

 

[Patocazador]

"My manual states my RIFLE can handle 90 grns of 3F with a 450 grn Maxi."

If you have a rifled barrel, just forget about using shot. It will scatter all over the place and be very inconsistent.

If your "rifle" is a smoothbore, then that's fine. I've found that you get better patterns when the amount shot is more than the powder. I shoot two 12 ga. SxS shotguns and they both like 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 oz. of shot to 75 grs. of 2F. For turkeys you can get a tighter pattern by using plastic shot cups.

I shot these 2 muscovies on Sat. with 1 1/8 oz. of 7 1/2s and 75 gr. of 2F. (They are feral exotics and unprotected if on public land .. at least in Fla.)

 

[rodwha]

Lyman states their barrel, in .54 cal, has a max charge as stated. But I would get a .50 cal barrel so that it can be reamed to .55 cal (28 ga) as the .54 would have a groove depth of ~.560". So it would be a smooth barrel.

 

[PapaG]

I have a TC Renegade 56 smoothbore with Briley choke tubes that works with 28 gallon card and fiber wads. 60 grains of powder and 7/8 oz shot is great on doves with the I.c. tube.

 

[rodwha]

Would you feel it possible to hunt turkey with it? Can you use a bit more powder and shot that 60 grns and 7/8 oz of shot?

What size shot are you using for dove? Are you decreasing the shot size to get more pellets on target?