Charter Undercover 2

Buckeye63

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Might be the inbetween Colt D frame size? Not as big as K but bigger than J.
 
The Undercover II is nothing more than a funny-colored Boxer. Both of those - and the Police Undercover - are 6-shot .38 Specials built on an aluminium Charter Large frame (aka Bulldog frame). They are definitely bigger than a J frame... more like a Colt Detective Special sized revolver. The do make a Police Undercover in hi-polish steel frame, but most of Charter's .38 Special and .32 H&R Mag current production is focused on aluminium frame material.

The .44 Special Bulldogs all use steel frames. The Professional .32 H&R Mag is also on the Large (Bulldog) frame in steel.

Charter Arms has a long history of naming and re-naming identical products, sometimes with minor changes, sometimes with no changes. Their website is also rarely updated, and a large number of their iterations of revolvers are not even on there in any form or description. Confusing, but apparently it works for them and the guns sell.
 
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The .44 Special Bulldogs all use steel frames. The Professional .32 H&R Mag is also on the Large (Bulldog) frame in steel.

Charter Arms has a long history of naming and re-naming identical products, sometimes with minor changes, sometimes with no changes. Their website is also rarely updated, and a large number of their iterations of revolvers are not even on there in any form or description. Confusing, but apparently it works for them and the guns sell.
This drives me nuts, I will see some new configuration of theirs on GB or in a store and if I can't get a model number you cannot find it on their site. For a while it was nigh on impossible to confirm if their .22 mag revolvers had moved from 6 to 8 shot capacity or if it was a typo.
 
This drives me nuts, I will see some new configuration of theirs on GB or in a store and if I can't get a model number you cannot find it on their site. For a while it was nigh on impossible to confirm if their .22 mag revolvers had moved from 6 to 8 shot capacity or if it was a typo.
Hahahahaha yes I find out the same way. But if you call them, they give you all the info you want.
 
UC II on Charter's site.

They're playing catchup with Taurus' 856.

Let me know if they've started making the transfer bar out of better material.
I've been around revolvers for 45 years, including S&W armorer school. Charter Arms has been making original designs, which have been proven to reliable, since 1964. They've been making 6-shot .38s and 5-shot .44s since the early 70s. They have had ups and downs like everyone including Colt and S&W, but the designs are sound when properly executed, which they have been for the majority of their existence.

Taurus, on the other hand, has a well-earned reputation over the course of decades, as legendary fail with their revolvers - a bastardized, modified, "simplified" and barely functional version of S&W designs. S&W had a majority ownership in the company in the 1960's but sold it off after realizing Taurus was a hopeless mess unable to produce revolvers to an acceptable level of quality. I will agree they have been an innovator: the Raging Bull and the Judge, for examples. But the execution has been uniformly bad from the inception. Every maker has it's price point, and examples get out of the factory that should not have seen the light of day. What they do afterwards is important. Taurus reputation as the US firearms industry's worst repair service is another of their well-deserved reputations. Which is not surprising with poor quality products made overseas with minimal domestic support. I've had three Tauri in the past 15 years and all of them had issues: one went back to the factory and returned in worst shape 8 months later, the second I repaired myself and the third I sold as is. Waiting over a year for a Taurus "repair" was not uncommon. The metallurgy, design and consistency is just not there.

They did much better with the pistol production copies of the Beretta 92, as they directly purchased the existing Beretta factory and tooling in Brazil, and kept the same people that were trained by Beretta, and used the same quality materials.

I have heard that Taurus has improved their revolver quality and service. Based on their reputation, they would be best advised to change their name to something else, and start over fresh. But from what I have seen of their recent production, I don't see any real changes, still using soft parts that wear out quickly, and the same bad design. Perhaps their service is better, but I'm not about to find out. I went looking for a part for a friend and waited 9 months for it be in stock.

You broke a transfer bar on a Charter Arms? Well, gee whiz. I've seen plenty of broken hammer blocks and hammer noses on S&W revolvers at twice the price. It's mechanical, it happens. I've had more than 2 dozens Charters, fired a few thousand rounds through them, with at least that many dry fires, and never broken a transfer bar. What does that mean? Nothing, as I might break one tomorrow. But I could call Charter Arms that day and have it in hand a few days later. I've also sent revolvers back to Charter over the years for this or that, and they have been returned in a few weeks completely 100%. And that does mean something.

PS. I bought two brand new S&W Classic series revolvers in the past 18 months. BOTH were obviously way out of spec, right out of the box. The first had a bad frame and was completely replaced by S&W - four month later. The replacement is perfect. The second was atrocious and went back, was returned 3 weeks later with an unskilled repair attempt, and is now back at the factory again. A supervisor did call me to apologize for sending out garbage.

PPS. Last three Charters Arms I purchased in the same time frame - no problems! At a lower the price that comparable S&W or Ruger. I'm not expecting Colt Python level finishing, but they work for the purposes intended.
 
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Man the experiences people have had with both Charter Arms and Taurus always fill me with dread before I purchase one. I am batting 1.0 with both across 4 recolvers, but I am always wondering before I make the purchase if this is going to be the one that is a total lemon.

It's exceptionally difficult because both are hard to come by in my location so I frequently have to purchase them online and have them shipped in. I have never had to refuse a firearm upon arrival at an FFL. Would I have to still pay the FFL fee and a return shipping fee if I had to reject it once I was able to see it in person?

I currently would really like to get a Taurus Talo 905 and a Charter Arms Model #78302 in .380, but I have been hesitant to pull the trigger. I wonder things like will the Taurus being a Talo exclusive mean it gets a bit better QC? Will the Charter Arms get better QC because it has their system for using rimless cartridges in a revolver, or is that system actually to complicated for their price point and will be far more likely to fail?

Hearing that others have had rough experiences with Rugers, S&Ws, and even Colts has helped somewhat since it is a reminder that all manufacturers let poor products slip through QC. Because quite honestly the only firearms I have ever had issues with have been Turkish made shotguns, and Heritage Rough Riders.
 

6 shot 38spl in their small frame
So .. basically J Frame sized 6 shot
Smaller frame than a 856 ..
as soon as a shiny black version DAO is released.. it will be my next revolver purchase
Do you know the cylinder width by chance?
 
That's certainly a unique look that makes a statement.

Undercover II is the same "Large" frame and cylinder as the Bulldog, in a 6-shot .38 Special, and has been named variously over the decades. My two are named "Police Undercover"

IMG_1991.jpeg
 
Ya'll think they'll make a DAO version of the Undercover II ?

You can always convert one yourself.
 
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