Chatting with my pops
- Thread starter joshk-k
- Start date
- Status
joshk-k
Member
To clarify: The punch may have been spiked with a drug like acid, not just with alcohol.
I wholeheartedly agree with all the advice that you all have thrown back my way. I think that the arguments that I initially put forward were sound and there are now several more that I can introduce into the discussion.
Thanks for your help.
Josh
I wholeheartedly agree with all the advice that you all have thrown back my way. I think that the arguments that I initially put forward were sound and there are now several more that I can introduce into the discussion.
Thanks for your help.
Josh
Acid doesn't make you want to kill people. (Charles Manson movies and lore notwithstanding). It makes you stay up all night and laugh a lot, or stay up all night and get very introspective, but not violent. Something happened that is about this individual, and little or nothing to do with "spiked punch".
Les
Les
Last edited:
joshk-k
Member
I don't know what it was spiked with. It isn't necessarily important to the general topic of the thread, which is about talking with my anti-gun father about a situation like this and convincing him that the gun was not the issue and that gun control is not the answer.
Shadow 7D
Member
EASY
now listen, you TELL HIM THE GUN isn't the issue, the
MAN who committed the crime is, period,
tell him you are going to take a baseball bat to his car, and he can then spend the next while blaming baseball bats for making dents, he can hate them for what they did to his car
Still doesn't change the fact that you beat the snot out of his car, bat hammer car wrecking ball
doesn't change what happened.
now listen, you TELL HIM THE GUN isn't the issue, the
MAN who committed the crime is, period,
tell him you are going to take a baseball bat to his car, and he can then spend the next while blaming baseball bats for making dents, he can hate them for what they did to his car
Still doesn't change the fact that you beat the snot out of his car, bat hammer car wrecking ball
doesn't change what happened.
while not trying to sound too insensitive, this is just one of those stories where there is no good answer. Yes it is tragic, but what are we supposed to do about it? Politicians would have me lock up all my guns and restrict my access to certain models just because one man murdered his wife? Why should the liberties of many be stripped due to the foolish action of one?
This is just one of those cases where you just think, "what a shame" and leave it a that.
This is just one of those cases where you just think, "what a shame" and leave it a that.
This sin't about guns....its about picking your friends, knowing who you associate with, and personal responsibility. #1.- The guy shouldn't have associated with the sort of person who would spike the punch wiith drugs without the klnowledge of the other party goers. Its not my place to state drug use in and of itself is wrong, but unknowingly drugging the masses? Not cool no matter HOW you look at it. If the eventual shooter KNEW the punch was spiked or that he would voluntarily become intoxicated at some point during the festivites, it would have been smart to lock up and unload any and all guns in the house. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize intoxicated people and firearms rarely make good bedfellows, and no couirt of law in the US is going to accept voluntary intoxication as a defense to a criminal act. Long story short....If the guy wasn't partying with the sort of people that would spike punch with mind altering drugs, and had the common sense to eliminate the presence of uncased, unlocked, loaded guns in an evironment of potentially (and at what party is the potential for drunken idiots not basically a given?) drunken/drugged fools, none of this would have ever happened. You can make this about many things, but gun control isn't one of them. Gun ownership is a responsibility, and this person failed to live up to that responsibility and unfortuantely, someone died. It would bne no differnt if he killed them drtiving drunk. If he did, no one would argue for car control, so why is gun control central to this conversation?
TimM
Member
In a situation like this does your dad also want to restrict access to knives, hammers, screwdrivers, baseball bats, lamps and heavy dictionaries? If not, his thinking is severely flawed.
It's the individual. How many others that drank the punch that night killed their wives/husbands?
It's the individual. How many others that drank the punch that night killed their wives/husbands?
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
I HAVE IT!
BAN VICTIMS.
Why didn't anyone think of that before?
That's what all crime and tragedy has in common.
Victims.
It's time to ban them.
Mr. & Mrs. America, turn them all in.
BAN VICTIMS.
Why didn't anyone think of that before?
That's what all crime and tragedy has in common.
Victims.
It's time to ban them.
Mr. & Mrs. America, turn them all in.
Right about thirty years ago, Thanksgiving Day of 1980, a woman named Priscilla Ford was driving her blue 1979 Lincoln Contenential up Virginia Street in Reno, Nevada. At one point, she jumped the curb and roared down the sidewalk for several blocks, mowing down as many people as she could.
This happened about two in the afternoon. Alcohol WAS involved (she had a BAC of .162). Seven people were killed and twenty-three were injured.
In spite of the carnage and outrage, there was NEVER a move to ban drinking, cars in general, V-8 motors (they're too powerful for civillians), or six-passenger vehicles (they're too big, most civillians don't have a requirement for a car with all that space and, therefore, bulk and mass). They didn't even ban driving in the downtown corridor!
What the authorities did was recognize a deranged individual using whatever was at hand to maim and kill. She could have caused virtually the same effect by walking through a crowded casino with a couple of steak knives, stabbing as she went.
The point here is that the vehicle, the knives, or the gun is NOT to blame. On another forum, a thread about Saturday Night Specials is running. Someone cited the old scene:
Sally Struthers (as Archie Bunker's Daughter): "Did you know that over XX## of people were killed with guns last year?"
Carroll O'Connor (as Archie Bunker): "Would you feel better, Little Girl, if they was pushed outta windows?"
Madness will ALWAYS out. Guns just happen to be one form of deadly force in a convenient, portable package.
ed
This happened about two in the afternoon. Alcohol WAS involved (she had a BAC of .162). Seven people were killed and twenty-three were injured.
In spite of the carnage and outrage, there was NEVER a move to ban drinking, cars in general, V-8 motors (they're too powerful for civillians), or six-passenger vehicles (they're too big, most civillians don't have a requirement for a car with all that space and, therefore, bulk and mass). They didn't even ban driving in the downtown corridor!
What the authorities did was recognize a deranged individual using whatever was at hand to maim and kill. She could have caused virtually the same effect by walking through a crowded casino with a couple of steak knives, stabbing as she went.
The point here is that the vehicle, the knives, or the gun is NOT to blame. On another forum, a thread about Saturday Night Specials is running. Someone cited the old scene:
Sally Struthers (as Archie Bunker's Daughter): "Did you know that over XX## of people were killed with guns last year?"
Carroll O'Connor (as Archie Bunker): "Would you feel better, Little Girl, if they was pushed outta windows?"
Madness will ALWAYS out. Guns just happen to be one form of deadly force in a convenient, portable package.
ed
Last edited:
Simplified
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2010
- Messages
- 3
Possible shortcut to his enlightenment.
"...the episode has heightened his feelings about access to guns and his feeling that episodes like this would happen less often if there was less access."
My gun wasn't involved. Nor was I.
I would not ban your father's car because a neighbor misused one and killed an innocent person. Nor is it fair or responsible to punish me because someone else did something I would never do.
If the husband had used a letter opener to do his wife in, would your father be expressing an emotional desire to reduce access to letter openers? Of course not.
This means his emotions are directed not at the murder but rather at the implement used to commit the crime.
Take your dad shooting. Hoplophobes can't demonize firearms when they break the emotional hold firearms have on their logic and reason. And nothing does that better than a fun day at the range.
If I had a buck for every gun-banner who's been converted into at least neutrality by one good day at the range, why... I could go buy a few more guns!
"...the episode has heightened his feelings about access to guns and his feeling that episodes like this would happen less often if there was less access."
My gun wasn't involved. Nor was I.
I would not ban your father's car because a neighbor misused one and killed an innocent person. Nor is it fair or responsible to punish me because someone else did something I would never do.
If the husband had used a letter opener to do his wife in, would your father be expressing an emotional desire to reduce access to letter openers? Of course not.
This means his emotions are directed not at the murder but rather at the implement used to commit the crime.
Take your dad shooting. Hoplophobes can't demonize firearms when they break the emotional hold firearms have on their logic and reason. And nothing does that better than a fun day at the range.
If I had a buck for every gun-banner who's been converted into at least neutrality by one good day at the range, why... I could go buy a few more guns!
- Status
