Cheap surplus in near future?

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Speedo66 said:
BATF says once a machine gun, always a machine gun. I don't know of any once select fire gun not subject to NFA rules, i.e., tax stamp and paperwork.

Would be wonderful to see surplus M-14's converted to semi auto only and sold, but it ain't going to happen.
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Maybe some here remember that during the early 90s a boatload of AK rifles poured in from China. These rifles were actually originally Chi Com AK 47 rifles. My wife and I were working the gun shows plus had the shop at the time. We bought 20 of them from a small distributor in Kentucky. Sold the rifles like any others and then came the letters from BATFE actually then BATF. If you looked close you could see the welds in the receivers where the holes were filled. You could literally lay an AK 47 template over the receivers and it was apparent. We sent everyone who bought one from us a copy of the BATF letter and a return postcard with options, you could return the rifle to us, you could tell us you had since sold the rifle at a gun show or whatever and there was a third option which I forget. The return post cards were pre post paid. Only one person requested to return the rifle to us. Truly amazing huh? :)

Once a machine gun always a machine gun applied. The whole affair was a mess.

Ron
 
tark said:
NOT!!! Once a machine gun, always a machine gun. If the gun was manufactured as an automatic weapon, it forevermore retains that status. An AK or an AR that is originally manufactured as a semi-auto is legal. If the ATF allowed full auto guns to be modified into semi-auto only, a lot of M-14s would have been converted to M1-As long ago. I believe this was once the plan but the ATF said NO! Even if the gun is a De-Wat it STILL has to go through the same transfer tax and paperwork as a fully operational gun. I see these in the RIA Auction co catalogs, every auction. Thompsons that have been rendered to DEWAT status. They are treated exactly as they would be if they were still fully functional.
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So everyone who built an AK from a foreign parts it is in violation of NFA? :what:
 
Speedo66 said:
BATF says once a machine gun, always a machine gun. I don't know of any once select fire gun not subject to NFA rules, i.e., tax stamp and paperwork.

Would be wonderful to see surplus M-14's converted to semi auto only and sold, but it ain't going to happen.
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An acquaintance of mine has two (out of about 100 existing) pre-1968, ATF-lettered, semi-auto M-14s.

One Winchester, I believe the other is a TRW. They are not for sale. The day I met him, he let me handle the Winchester. At the time it was sitting in an M14E2 stock. Point is, non-NFA converted guns *do* exist. But they are rare...like once in a lifetime rare. Just remember, never say "never."
 
entropy said:
So everyone who built an AK from a foreign parts it is in violation of NFA? :what:
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No, if the receiver was never a full auto rifle then no. When they came in with the thumbhole stocks we were selling complete wood kits. The drawback was the rifles like the MAK 90 needed a mod for the original AK 47 wood to be fitted. It was never about the parts but the receivers, If a rifle was manufactured as select fire it was not permitted. Thus the phrase once a machine gun, always a machine gun.

Ron
 
Only way imports will be getting cheaper is if *someone* uses their Executive authority to nuke the import bans on China & Russia, as well as the bans on imported 'assault weapon' barrels and 922r interpretation that require domestic equivalents to be produced for literally no reason at all.

TCB
 
all about perspective and inflation, but I remember 8$ minimum wage, with SKS's going for 200$, AKM's for 320$, mosins for 55$, yugo/turk mausers for 100$, and not being interested. Used to see new marlins 336/94 for 330$ An average car was around 28000$ when I got my first job, Gas at 1.80/gallon, and soon to hit 4.90.
 
Reloadron said:
No, if the receiver was never a full auto rifle then no. When they came in with the thumbhole stocks we were selling complete wood kits. The drawback was the rifles like the MAK 90 needed a mod for the original AK 47 wood to be fitted. It was never about the parts but the receivers, If a rifle was manufactured as select fire it was not permitted. Thus the phrase once a machine gun, always a machine gun.

Ron
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I know, I just wanted you to clarify that. Some might take it to include kits also.
 
Crummy ARs were 2-3 times more expensive than crummy WASR AKs not too long ago, either, with not a whole lot of selection besides...
 
Thus the phrase once a machine gun, always a machine gun.
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But only so long as it remains a receiver (just a corollary for those who think the thousands and thousands of parts kits being sold and rewelded into functional semi-autos for decades are somehow mistaken about the law & its enforcement). Interestingly, that phrase also appears exactly nowhere in federal law or regulation; it's arbitrary unspoken ATF code-talk that Bureau defenders constantly insist isn't part of their enforcement practices.

TCB
 
The "parts kits" were taken to bits "somewhere else" and put into a box, sometimes including the remains of rthe receiver, torch-cut into at least three pieces (to ATFE spec). So, all that was imported was "parts."

You then needed a receiver, and to do your due diligence for "922 compliance" (which generally meant having at least 10 US-sourced parts). The assembled weapon was only ever an semi, since it was built that way.

Rewelding the original receiver, though, was verboten.
 
Unless some of the south American or Central African countries have any remaining warehouses of non-select-fire weapons, we may never see milsurp the way we saw it in the 80s & 90s.

There might be some stockpiles in SE Asia that could come to market.

If the wars in SW Asia ever calm, that willgenerate a lot of excess inventory that could wind up on the international market.

Maybe.

Could be.

Possibly.

Probably not; I agree with Ian McCollum (Forgotten Weapons) on this.
 
peacebutready said:
I didn't know they had war capture Mausers in Russia. I'm surprised they didn't sell them here when they were able to..
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They did about 25 years ago. There were "Russian Capture" Mauser 98s for sale all over the place. You must be a youngster not to remember that.
 
All the while some 11 year olds in Africa sport $40.00 select fire stamped AK's
Our surplus small arms ammo is reduced to it's components and then sold to us as "Damaged Goods" for reloading.
I think we should be thinking about more ways to increase the National Debt because folks who are a lot more educated than myself are going to borrow our Country out of debt.
If I could figure it out in my mind I'd like to do the same thing.
A Barrett 50 cal. sure would be within reach along with some machine guns to play with too.
Please tell a dumb hillbilly how it works so he can have more fun and no worry about the monthly bills.
 
I bought SKS rifles for $75, Czech Mausers for $84, Enfields for $80, Mosins for $80. But a DPMS AR was $700 or so.
 
barnbwt said:
Only way imports will be getting cheaper is if *someone* uses their Executive authority to nuke the import bans on China & Russia, as well as the bans on imported 'assault weapon' barrels and 922r interpretation that require domestic equivalents to be produced for literally no reason at all.
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If those bans disappeared, we would be able to get our paws in some interesting stuff for not a lot of money. Semi-auto AKs, SKS (though I don't know how many are out there and whether they still make them), 1911s from Norinco, etc.
 
entropy said:
So everyone who built an AK from a foreign parts it is in violation of NFA? :what:
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The key part, as always, is the receiver. The foreign parts kits don't have the original receiver. Or they do, but it has been chopped up. You can use parts from a weapon that was originally full auto, just not the receiver. Look at all the M-1As with M-14 parts on them.
 
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There are still fairly large stores of surplus items in Russia. But, due to import restrictions, not likely to see them.

entropy said:
So everyone who built an AK from a foreign parts it is in violation of NFA? :what:
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No - this prohibition is about the receiver, not the other parts.
 
Ok, guys read all the posts. In post #29, reloadron answered the question, and in post #32, I mentioned that I asked it so that others who read " once a machine gun, always a machine gun" didn't take it the wrong way; Kind of like all the posts that question the absolutism of Rule #1 in threads about the Four Rules.
 
peacebutready said:
Anyone know what they have over there?
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The Russians never discarded anything. Based on recent conversations with folks over there, more Mosins (1891, 91/30, m44 ...), SKS rifles, SVT rifles, Nagant 1895 revolvers, Tokarevs, and Makarovs. And apparently some Winchester 1895s (in 7.62x54R). Plus whatever they captured and kept during and after WW2, like kar.98k rifles, p.08 and p.38 pistols, etc. Plus all the automatic firearms that would not be importable anyway.

Here's a blog from last year talking about warehoused firearms in Russia. YMMV ... http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/24/russian-warehouse-find-crates-of-machine-guns/

Not optimistic I'll see imports again of any of these from Russia in my lifetime.
 
wojownik said:
The Russians never discarded anything. Based on recent conversations with folks over there, more Mosins (1891, 91/30, m44 ...), SKS rifles, SVT rifles, Nagant 1895 revolvers, Tokarevs, and Makarovs. And apparently some Winchester 1895s (in 7.62x54R). Plus whatever they captured and kept during and after WW2, like kar.98k rifles, p.08 and p.38 pistols, etc. Plus all the automatic firearms that would not be importable anyway.

Not optimistic I'll see imports again of any of these from Russia in my lifetime.
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Thanks for the link and info. I know the automatic stuff is not importable but I wish we could get the others. Bummer.
 
It's going to mostly be parts kits and pistols from here out except for weird things like Samco liquidations.

Pistols can be imported mostly intact since they are exempt from 922r.

Parts kits are tough since at the very least the barrels and receivers are ruined.

There's a slim chance we might get some Korean Garands and M1 Carbines, although they are reported to be fairly trashed.

CMP might get a ton of Filipino Garands, which is very exciting.
 
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