Jack19
Member
a Form 4...even though FA and SBR weapons are perfectly legal in my state. 
What's my recourse?
Any and all advice is appreciated.
What's my recourse?
Any and all advice is appreciated.
"Chief Law Enforcement Officer" Won't Sign.....
- Thread starter Jack19
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Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
District justice/county judge, District Atty, Head of local ATF....
C.R.Sam
Moderator Emeritus
Plus...
Sheriff or Chief, whichever you didn't try.
Sam
Sheriff or Chief, whichever you didn't try.
Sam
Form a corporation, they can obtain FA weapons without the signoff of a CLEO. There was a recent thread about this over (I think) on AR15.com. This would be the last resort as you would then have to file the various corporate paperwork required by your state. That varies from state to state but can involve sending forms in every three months in some places. Like I said - Last resort.
Don in Ohio
Don in Ohio
Hkmp5sd
Member
The CLEO can be the local Police Chief, Sheriff, Head of State Police, Local or State DA/Prosecutor and "or such other persons whose certificate may in a particular case be acceptable to the Director."
This means the Director of ATF can authorize a person to sign in place of the normal CLEO. You can contact the Director and ask him to designate someone. Over the years, they have approved the local US Attorney, local US Marshals, local supervising FBI agents and local federal judges.
There are also ways to force the CLEO to sign. You can threaten or actually file a lawsuit against him for not signing. You can go to his political boss (city or county government) and threaten them with a lawsuit if CLEO will not sign.
If all of this fails, it is fairly easy and cheap to form a corporation. That gets you around the CLEO, photographs and fingerprints. Only downside is if the corporation closes, you must transfer the weapons to yourself or someone else on a Form 4.
If it comes to having to form a corporation, Access Incorporation Services can set you up. For about $200 and $99/year, they can set you up in Delaware, which is the best state to form one, regardless of where you live. For the $99/yr fee, they fill out all necessary papers that are required to be filed each year. In Delaware, you don't have to pay any taxes, don't have to have a minimum amount of capital and you can be all of the corporation officers at once. Don't need to involve others. AIS handles all of the paperwork, so there is basically nothing for you to do.
This means the Director of ATF can authorize a person to sign in place of the normal CLEO. You can contact the Director and ask him to designate someone. Over the years, they have approved the local US Attorney, local US Marshals, local supervising FBI agents and local federal judges.
There are also ways to force the CLEO to sign. You can threaten or actually file a lawsuit against him for not signing. You can go to his political boss (city or county government) and threaten them with a lawsuit if CLEO will not sign.
If all of this fails, it is fairly easy and cheap to form a corporation. That gets you around the CLEO, photographs and fingerprints. Only downside is if the corporation closes, you must transfer the weapons to yourself or someone else on a Form 4.
If it comes to having to form a corporation, Access Incorporation Services can set you up. For about $200 and $99/year, they can set you up in Delaware, which is the best state to form one, regardless of where you live. For the $99/yr fee, they fill out all necessary papers that are required to be filed each year. In Delaware, you don't have to pay any taxes, don't have to have a minimum amount of capital and you can be all of the corporation officers at once. Don't need to involve others. AIS handles all of the paperwork, so there is basically nothing for you to do.
brookstexas
member
Ask what other
of your Civil Rights does he intend to deny you...
of your Civil Rights does he intend to deny you...
CleverNickname
Member
Donate heavily to his reelection fund.
...or preferably , to that of his opponent.
...or preferably , to that of his opponent.
Work against him in the election, but find out first what the opposition candidate thinks. You don't want an anti-all guns guy in there.
In the meantime, hire an attorney to explain to him that his signature is not an "approval" but a simple certification that no law exists to bar ownership of that item by that person. He, like many CLEOs is scared s**tless that you will misuse the gun and he will see headlines like "Sheriff Approved Murder Machinegun".
The whole reason for the CLEO signature is BATFE covering their fanny (as always) in case the Podunk city council passed a law last night that they wouldn't know about, but the CLEO would.
Many comments have been made about the gun laws in the PR of Maryland, but one of them works OK. The Maryland State Police is CLEO for the whole state. They run the same check as they do for a handgun purchase, then sign and pass the papers on to BATFE. Not even a charge and none of the problems with local law types who hate your family or think you are the "wrong" color or don't go to their church.
Jim
In the meantime, hire an attorney to explain to him that his signature is not an "approval" but a simple certification that no law exists to bar ownership of that item by that person. He, like many CLEOs is scared s**tless that you will misuse the gun and he will see headlines like "Sheriff Approved Murder Machinegun".
The whole reason for the CLEO signature is BATFE covering their fanny (as always) in case the Podunk city council passed a law last night that they wouldn't know about, but the CLEO would.
Many comments have been made about the gun laws in the PR of Maryland, but one of them works OK. The Maryland State Police is CLEO for the whole state. They run the same check as they do for a handgun purchase, then sign and pass the papers on to BATFE. Not even a charge and none of the problems with local law types who hate your family or think you are the "wrong" color or don't go to their church.
Jim
El Tejon
Member
Jack, what's on your 4. I highly recommend a suppressed .22 rifle as your first Title II weapon.
For some, unknown to me, reason guys always want the SBR. Why, I do not know. Around and around I go with them.
.22 suppressed rifle is far easier to explain. After the first the floodgates open.
For some, unknown to me, reason guys always want the SBR. Why, I do not know. Around and around I go with them.
.22 suppressed rifle is far easier to explain. After the first the floodgates open.
Abenaki
Member
This is an area where the NRA and other gun rights groups have failed us gun owners.
Every time something like this happens, the people/organizations/cities need to be drug into court and hit with a large law suite!
We need to be like the blacks were in the 60's.
We need to stand up and shout and not back down!!!!!!
If we have to, we need to sue these types into submission.
But it aint gonna happen.............
We can't even get gun owners united .
And we surley don't want folks to thing that we are radicals.
And most gun owners are having to much fun playing with their toys
to get involved.
How sad
Abenaki
Every time something like this happens, the people/organizations/cities need to be drug into court and hit with a large law suite!
We need to be like the blacks were in the 60's.
We need to stand up and shout and not back down!!!!!!
If we have to, we need to sue these types into submission.
But it aint gonna happen.............
We can't even get gun owners united .
And we surley don't want folks to thing that we are radicals.
And most gun owners are having to much fun playing with their toys
to get involved.
How sad
Abenaki
OP
OP
Jack19
Member
Well I talked to the Sheriff's office today. He won't sign any Form 4s, as in none...not even for Deputies in his department.
All I wanted was an SBR Uzi....not even full auto. No joy.
I may have to take the advice of another board member and incorporate myself.
All I wanted was an SBR Uzi....not even full auto. No joy.
I may have to take the advice of another board member and incorporate myself.
MacPelto
Member
Not that I'm thinking of getting one anytime soon, but why is this easier?
El Tejon
Member
"Sheriff Wiggum, I shoot on land zoned for shooting, however there are homes in the area. While I enjoy shooting, I do not wish to disturb the neighbors or cause unnecessary runs for your deputies. With this muffler, I may enjoy this exercise without bothering others or create unnecessary paperwork for your department."
Something along those lines. I have telephone exhaustion tonight or I'd be more creative, something about talking your Boy Scout troop shooting and you want to be able to safely instruct them while shooting. Some variation of "for the children."
Man, I'm tired. I need eel to make me right.
Something along those lines. I have telephone exhaustion tonight or I'd be more creative, something about talking your Boy Scout troop shooting and you want to be able to safely instruct them while shooting. Some variation of "for the children."
Man, I'm tired. I need eel to make me right.
Hkmp5sd
Member
You might want to let the Sheriff know that you can get your SBR without his signature. The only difference is it is going to be a little extra paperwork and a few hundred dollars. He may not know that you can do that.
Make him aware that there is no way he can stop it and his causing you to go through this extra hassle will probably alienate you, your friends and friends-of-friends in any future elections. In fact, you may even go beyond that and actively join the campaign of his next opponent while filling the newspaper with letters to the editor over his conduct.
He can sign, saving you the unnecessary problems or not sign, resulting in you causing him unnecessary problems.
Make him aware that there is no way he can stop it and his causing you to go through this extra hassle will probably alienate you, your friends and friends-of-friends in any future elections. In fact, you may even go beyond that and actively join the campaign of his next opponent while filling the newspaper with letters to the editor over his conduct.
He can sign, saving you the unnecessary problems or not sign, resulting in you causing him unnecessary problems.
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