Chinese Rem 870 and Ithica 37 clones..... Questions????

[Swampy]

Guys,

Hi. I normally cruise the Rifle and Military Semi-Auto forums.....

BUT...... I got a question about shotguns so thought I'd come here.

I've noticed that AIM Surplus has Chinese made clones of the Rem 870 and the Ithica 37 shotguns in Home Defense configuration. Both are with 18-19" bbls, 12 ga., and have 5+1 mags, and sling swivels. The Ithica clone also comes with ghost ring sights, heat shield, and for'd pistol grip.

Both of these sell for $160 each.

A very nice and attractive price for a "full up" Home Defense rig.... especially the Ithica.

Now... I was getting ready to buy a short barrel for my Remmy 870 Super Express bird gun so's I could keep it under the bed for those "bump in the night" scenarios... but the cost of a Remmy barrel alone is almost the same as one of these Chinese imports, not counting a mag extension tube, sights, pistol grip, and sling swivels.

I ask myself.... do I spend $150 for a barrel??? or spend $160 for a whole 'nuther shotgun???.... one that's ready for use, and I can keep my bird gun in the safe until next September.

The questions I have for you guys are:

1) How's the quality of these overall??? Decent or doo-doo???

2) Parts interchangeability??? Are these clones of the Rem and Ithica close enough that barrels, buttstocks, and aftermarket add-on parts for the original Rem and Ithica will fit on them???

Thanks in advance for any replies,

Swampy

Garands forever

 

[Tropical Z]

I have a Brolin,Ithaca clone and it seems to be very well made and has never given me any problems.Fit and finish are very nice with the exception of the stain on the handguard which is thin.I couldnt begin to tell you if they are compatible from a parts standpoint.CDNN has a nice looking High Standard home defense pump for $199,but i dont know where they are made and if theyre worth a dang.
www.cdnninvestments.com

 

[dfariswheel]

From what I've seen, the Ithaca clone seems to be ROUGH. I've heard a lot of complaints about poor quality workmanship and very inconsistent heat treated parts.

The 870 clones seem to have a better reputation for quality and workmanship, with the caution that ain't neither of them up to any kind of American standard for fit or finish.

The general consensus is, the Ithaca clone just isn't up to much, with the 870 being OK for a limited use, "Don't care if it gets stolen, rusty, or banged up" gun.

As far as the 870 clone, there is at least some parts interchangeability, but NOT barrels, since the barrel support ring is placed differently then the genuine 870.

The best I can offer: The 870 clone is an OK HD or truck gun as long as you don't expect much, the Ithaca clone is often described as junk that goes "Bang" when the trigger is pulled.

 

[Dave McCracken]

I bought a classic 870 inside the last year from a shop for %170. Beaters still go for about $150 at times.

Get one of these. It'll last forever, never need parts, have resale value and is as dependable as anything made by humans.

Life's too short at it is. Don't let weapons of questionable quality make it shorter.

 

[The Sensei]

Life's too short at it is. Don't let weapons of questionable quality make it shorter.

AMEN!

 

[Al Thompson]

Get a second gun.

The last few shotguns I've bought - Win 1300 for 200, private transaction, Ithaca M37 for something under 200, 870 Express for 175.

Used homegrown guns are way better than knock-offs with poor parts availability and iffy heat treatment. There's a reason tey're so cheap.

 

[Tomac]

"Used homegrown guns are way better than knock-offs with poor parts availability and iffy heat treatment. There's a reason tey're so cheap."

Got any hard data to back that up concerning the Norinco 870 clones? The Norinco 1911 clone is very highly regarded in .45 circles and is one of the few 1911 clones the high-end 'smiths will work on due to the hardness of the slide & frame. My Norinco/Hawk clones have had several hundred rds of slug, buck & heavy field loads and the only problem I've encountered is the ghostring sights loosening under recoil (easy fix w/loctite). My 'smith looked 'em over and says they'll take most Remington factory parts (I know for a fact they'll take Remington 870 bolts as the $9.99 complete bolts I picked up from CDNN drop right in and work fine) and I've fitted the 4rd Sidesaddle, Wilson follower/spring & Remington R3 recoil pad w/o difficulty. I agree they're best for beater/budget guns and IMHO Swampy's best off handling one for himself before deciding.
Tomac

 

[Al Thompson]

Actually, your the first person I've read that had actually has first hand data on the 870 clone.

The Norinco 1911 is indeed a very decent model. The M14 clone was not. May not have been Norinco, I'm not sure.

Why did you replace the bolt? Just checking?

While "most factory parts" is pretty good, what about any that may deform due to heat treatment problems, ala the M14 clone bolts? Specifically, I'd wonder about the action bars, and magazine ube. As you so aptly pointed out, the only thing that is slightly common is the extractor breaking. Looks like you solved that with the Remington bolt. What about the rest of the bolt assembly?

Please keep us posted when your round count gets up there.

 

[Tomac]

"Actually, your the first person I've read that had actually has first hand data on the 870 clone.
Why did you replace the bolt? Just checking?
While "most factory parts" is pretty good, what about any that may deform due to heat treatment problems, ala the M14 clone bolts? Specifically, I'd wonder about the action bars, and magazine ube. As you so aptly pointed out, the only thing that is slightly common is the extractor breaking. Looks like you solved that with the Remington bolt. What about the rest of the bolt assembly?
Please keep us posted when your round count gets up there."

Al, I'm more than happy to share facts and whatever personal experience I've had with a particular firearm. Unfortunately I've run into too many anecdotal stories about various firearms over the years w/o hard data to back 'em up. I've heard mixed reports on their Ithica clones (usually QC stuff like burrs and rough edges) but have no personal experience w/them.

I don't claim the Norinco/Hawk 870 clones are as good or will last as long as a true 870 (only time and usage will tell) but from my personal experience so far they do make a halfway-decent alternative if one is on a very tight budget or wants to redefine the term "beater shotgun"...

Actually, I still have the original bolts in the 870 clones. I bought the 870 bolts "just in case" there were problems w/the Chinese metallurgy (I have seen examples of "bad" Chinese metallurgy and it doesn't get much worse) and to see how interchangeable 870 parts were w/the 870 clones.

I've seen no apparent wear or other problems to date (and yes, this is something I'm watching for) and with the relatively low 12ga pressures I'm not as worried as I might be with their M-14 clone. Should there be a problem w/the actions bars then a std 870 forend will fit just fine if you relieve a little material from the inside of the forend to account for the slightly thicker bbl of the clone.

Please let me know if you have any other questions and I'll be sure to post if anything new crops up (or doesn't...)
Tomac